For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

Re some of this - with all the stuff on SM about how hard it is atm I was pleased to get a same day appointment the other day, plus a weekend one previously same day (f2f during pandemic)

GP was really good etc I sent feedback to say thanks etc

Jesus.

You do realise some people's circumstances change after they've had one than one child, right?

This is exactly what is wrong with the belief system around benefits. Everyone on them are feckless, lazy sods with Spanish holidays twice a year and big fancy cars.

It's actually more the case that the benefits system leaves people destitute and disillusioned and removes any self respect you had. They will find any excuse to sanction. People have died due to the system.

It's the bankers who take the piss, politicians, big business. But you keep believing the Telegraph that the downturn is the fault of people on a pittance they have to beg for.

Same place they found money for Michelle Mone, Dido Harding, Queens Funeral, Charles coronation next year, fake PPE.

Erm, they find the money for a lot if things.

To provide Ukraine with weapons.

And to pay their friends for contracts they couldnt fulfil.

Apparently it's not worth chasing up billions in COVID fraud either.

And MP payrises and expenses.

OP open your bloody eyes, clean out your ears and fire up your brain.

@foxynoxy Wow , I genuinely had no idea so much extra was being added to the 9.8% I pay in, I thought they rounded it up to about 20% not that they added a full extra 20% on top of my contribution of 9.8%. It feels a long way off before I can claim it, hopefully I will make it !

We need to properly tax wealth and assets rather than just focus on income.

The disparity between those with the most and those with the least is obscene at the moment. That’s bad for crime rates and for the mental health of all.

Check out Garyseconomics on You tube. He is an ex city banker who made millions but grew up with very little. He explains economics in a really easy to understand way. Explains how the wealthy are able to accrue more and more but avoid tax. I hadn’t fully understood this before.

There is plenty of money.

We need a big shift in economic policy to even things out more and properly pay all workers and properly fund public services. I’m not talking about ‘socialism’ or ‘communism’ but something that doesn’t just leave it to ‘the markets’. Trickle down economics doesn’t work.

The irony is we do have a form of communism - where the markets are rigged so rich people never lose out.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXP8gH0wddE&feature=youtu.be

Not sure if it’s ok to post links but this guy explains city finances in an easy to understand way. Shows how wealth and income are different. There is an abundance of wealth held by the few. This needs taxing. Everyone should watch it. It might not make you want economic change but at least you’ll be making a more informed choice next election.

WatchoRulo

Very true.

Surely falling within the tax threshold and therefore paying tax is good thing so that we can have properly funded public services.

Or is paying tax only a good thing for other people?

only providing benefits for one child is heinous. Children don’t chose which family to be born into. If they are born into poverty their future health and prosperity are effected negatively. OP you clearly have zero understanding of human beings and development. Human beings are complex. Massively complex.

Benefits for one child as a policy is highly unlikely to affect reproductive decisions but will most certainly negatively affect children. The next generation. The generation that will work in the care home you end up in.

The trouble with this country is people think everything is simple cause and effect. It's far more complicated. We can only think in a linear way, when really everything is connected to everything else in a series of complex systems. You can't just choke money off one aspect off it and expect things to suddenly change for the better elsewhere.

This ideology in our government is a sign of people in charge who have never had to deal with any complexity in their own lives outside their jobs. Don't have to weigh up between working and paying extortionate childcare, where to move to because of housing costs, where and how to shop so they still have money for bills at the end of the month. Completely out of touch ideas, because they have never lived a life that is anywhere close to ours. They have hired help, or had privilege to relieve the struggle. I know some MP's have started from humble beginnings, but it is also quite easy to forget if you have been lucky and been in the right place at the right time and then just assume their success is all due to all hard work alone. For many, it's hard work AND luck and self belief that leads to success. Lots of people don't have the latter two on their side.

The media and government pedal this simplistic linear way of thinking that the OP highlights because they benefit from the division it creates. The cracks are really starting to show now and people aren't falling for it anymore. The bots that do the "back in my day I ate nothing but potatoes and had frozen feet" thing doesn't convince even the stupidest of people now. I'm glad people are starting to think about the root cause of everything more and realise the issue have often come from the top.

Surprisingly, the BBC actually debunked some of the figures the government have being throwing around regarding the cost of payrises.

Great post best way.

I second this.

@Iamboredandgoingforatwix I agree with you. A lot of this simplistic sound bite politics started during the Thatcher years. She was nothing if not a really effective campaigner and sloganeer. Labour at the time put forward the more complex and considered arguments but were swept aside by her ridiculously simplistic rhetoric. This is the root of all the stupid shit spouted about "the nation's credit card". She was so good at it that she managed to get people to pay for things they had already paid for (privatisation, council houses) on the expectation of getting rich quick.

It’s always the poor benefits that need stripping back, never the bankers paying back the money they were pledged to bail them out.

the government found the money to bail out bankers but they don’t like the NHS as it’s a socialist concept so it’s best to run it into the ground. That sign on the side of the bus about the £350 million a week, that was another lie

This is all very easy to say from your position of privilege and good fortune. Affording life insurance is simply beyond the reach of many, and I dread to think how many people have had to lapse their payments to pay their most recent fuel bill.

I already pay a huge amount of tax and they piss it up the wall. With higher mortgage costs, energy bills and upcoming huge childcare costs - no, I'm not prepared to pay more. What we pay now should be spent properly. We are victims of incompetence and they can't take and take more from people to cover that up.

I haven't rtft so I suppose it's been said but if we accept that the country can't afford it right now, what about the last 12 years? Why were public sector workers consistently offered under-inflation (or no) annual pay increases then? It'd be easier to stomach now if we'd been treated fairly since 2010.

@AdamRyan we didn't get working tax credits. I recall the Blair government insisting everyone would have an appointment on the day it was needed. It wasn't much use for those with chronic conditions that needed monitoring as I was no longer able to book an appointment in advance. I could only get one by ringing on the morning - not great when surgery opening times clashed with leaving for school. Even worse once I went back to work and wasn't ill and couldn't exactly say to my employer "sorry won't be in until 12 because of a routine GP appointment. The system was an arse even then with zero respect for the needs of the patients.

Both DC needed grommets in the late 90s. Not available on the NHS.

Where are you getting the our facts from? Tik Tok? Look it up. Quantitative easing alone alone was half a trillion. And the borrowing on top between 2020 and 2022z

I couldn't agree more.

But the Swedes are finding this very difficult now. They have a very large increase in their population whose parents did not contribute to the taxation ‘pot’ , and who are not now net contributors, so public services are under a great deal of pressure.

The majority of nurses are not in the heating or eating bracket. Those who are are presumably in debt or have made some very poor decisions.

I can see a real issue re cost of living for nurses in London and the Home Counties and that needs to be addressed by a higher London/Living weighting. I can't see the issue outside London.

I also think the mantra of "all nurses have degrees" is somewhat misplaced. State Registered Nurses were always bright people. In the 50s and 60s, possibly even 70s, I suspect many young women went into nursing rather than medicine because of opinions at the time. I don't get the impression that many nurses are particularly bright at all whether or not they have a degree. I suspect many are not as bright as some nurses of yesteryear who probably brought significant excellence and intellect to their vocation. It is often sadly missing now.

Nurse practitioners I have dealt with have been excellent. Sisters and staff nurses on wards and in outpatients not necessarily so.

How many nurses prescribe chemo drugs? How many nurses prescribe steroids? How many nurses give a prognosis for more than straightforward medical matters I imagine not many. Whenever I have asked a nurse a question they have responded "I don't know". Midwives and HVs have provided unequivocal answers but sadly they have been wrong mostly.

If in the mid 70s, 80s, 90s, 00's everything was great why were nurses moaning then? I've heard nurses moan about staffing after they have kept me awake all night chatting about holidays and boyfriends. Perhaps if there had been less complaint decades ago they might be taken seriously now.

It all needs an overhaul. Public sector needs a payrise but those who don't contribute shouldn't get access either. Access to services needs to be linked to taxes paid. Those who don't work, or work part-time, should only get access to the NHS if they pay.

Benefits should only be available to those who work full time.

The majority of nurses are not in the heating or eating bracket. Those who are are presumably in debt or have made some very poor decisions.

Yes we must always blame the individual

I see the Rolls Royce workers got over 17% today. They are already fairly well paid and will receive a major pay rise.

Of course because they are private sector, their wage rises are magically unable to cause inflation to rise, only public sector money can affect inflation