For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

Every extra £1 a nurse gets only costs the public purse 68p, because 32% will go in tax and NI. And if that nurse is on UC (highly likely if they have children and pay rent) the govt will save 55% of the remaining 68p in UC reduction.

The nurse will probably be making extra student loan repayments too, which are a tax in all but name. Add 9p to the above.

There are only 29m taxpayers in England & Wales, not 50m.

Scotland has 3m taxpayers and their taxes go to the Scottish government, who have of course just raised their income tax rates this week.

The other option is to let the housing market crash massively. Rental and housing decreases by a third will be as good as a payrise.

Scotland's nurses in the Unite and Unison unions have accepted a pay offer of 7.5% and the RCM have also recommended their members accept it.

So why are those in England demanding 19% ?

Absolutely. They're doing a Robin Hood in reverse.

How much did Michelle Mone and her husband scam the country for? And now they've legged it to Honduras and have put a lot of the property they bought with their ill-gotten gains up for sale.

The whole fucking lot should be sequestrated while their profiteering is looked into.

Not going to read thd whole thread . If you even contemplate what will happen to you if you get ill or need a hospital bed then you should really start worrying. Nursing is not a vocation that only requires shit wages. Registered nurses are degree educated highly skilled professionals who are worried sick and stressed out with trying to look after patients when so understaffed.
Wards are frequently run on skeleton staff. Agency nurses prop up numbers but are not as efficient as substantive staff as have to be trained to use different computer systems when they arrive to pick up a shift. Nurses are moved around the hospital to prop up areas which are really short of staff. This often means nurses are working outside their area of expertise which is highly stressful. Think of an example when you might be moved to a different area of work where you have no experience and people’s lives depend on you. Thd stress at the moment is unbelievable and nurses are leaving. We need more nurses and they must be adequately paid for their job .

1. Have Scottish nurses been subject to the same "public sector pay restraint" over a decade or so that English nurses have?
2. In a negotiation you start out at extremes and find a compromise somewhere in the middle.

There’s no way to square how much money the current government have given away - no logical argument. Pure base corruption. I think people should pay more attention let alone more taxes - my friends who are comfortably off saying “ooh I don’t watch the news/don’t understand politics/they’re all the same” - hard to hear adults spout this crap and vote them in again and again.

England’s nurses haven’t been offered 7.5%. They probably wouldn’t be on strike if they had been. The 19% is a headline negotiating position, designed to highlight how far nurses wages have fallen in real terms. They don’t expect to get it. A reasonable pay offer would have avoided the strikes.

Even for the self-employed?

well if they paid nurses a decent salary people would actually apply for the jobs that are currently vacant and hospitals could stop spunking ££££ on agency staff

If you want to down tools and protest about your own mistreatment of yourself, you'll find no one stopping you.

Would you like to borrow some matches for your brazier?

Many self-employed put up with poor pay and conditions because their business cannot afford to spend more.

@ClangingBell it's a pity you aren't able to present an argument without resorting to foul language. It says rather a lot in relation to critical thinking.

Women, are those most heavily impacted by motherhood regardless of any feminist argument. I believe in absolute equality. Couples whether mixed sex or same sex are responsible for their children, decided upon jointly, even if not biologically 50% of each partner. Ultimately, it's one partner, usually female who bears the brunt of relationship breakdown and the financial burden thereof. Some women are also wired to be "mothers", others are not. In an ideal world partners should be able to curate careers whereby they each work a four day week to reduce childcare. That may be one of the benefits of the hybrid working patterns that will change working patterns.

Regrettably at the end of the day couples are responsible for their children. The burden needs to be shared equally but even in 2021 the only single fathers I have known have been widowers where the children's mother has died tragically young. This illustrates perfectly why women need to plan for their security and think ahead.

But as I said before your exceptionally rude post this is a subject for a different thread.

@Sugarplumfairy65 there may be a union for everyone but it's purpose is presumably limited if it is not recognised by the employer.

We'll make a start with MP's pay rises, MP's massive expenses & the subsidised bar at Westminster.

I replied to a thread about this and got slated.

No, I wouldnt be happy paying more tax. Does this mean I don't appreciate, and value the NHS? No. Does it make me a hypocrite that I was out every week clapping and cheering the NHS workers on? No!

I am not happy paying more tax because it wont solve many issues. Yes, it'll mean nurses / nhs staff will get a rise (a well deserved one, may I add) but what about the other issues? The NHS is poorly run, with shoddy management and I bet the ones at the top are being paid handsomely! We cant just throw money at problems in hope it will make it all bette... this is short term thinking!

All this chat about agency workers - yes, agency per hour rates are alot higher but the agency will be taking a big cut of that - the agency worker isnt getting all of that.

19% is simply not going to happen .. and what if it does? What about all over public services, will they then start demanding equally higher pay? Are we going to be happy with more tax?

Its easy to say "oh but MPs can stop giving money to XXXX" or "stop MPs payrises" - these are just throw away statements and it wont happen. Pretty sure Riki isnt going to have a light bulb moment and stop sending money to WHATEVER because Barbara from Mumnset said it will rustle up some extra money for the NHS.

As I said, I am all for NHS getting fair pay - one which is inline with inflation and one which is fair, however, lets start having honest conversations about revamping NHS models, better long term plans etc. I cant see how increasing money will attract millions of people to train as nurses... this is really just a stupid way of thinking. If companies are struggling to hire, they dont suddenly chuck money at the problem - they look at the role, benefits, the whole picture.

Also, I'm not happy at the level of service the NHS provides at the moment for the amount of tax I pay. I am young and fit but there have been a few times in the past (like when I got shingles, which was very painful and I couldnt wear clothes! When I had killer migraines which impacted my sleep and one day I nearly fainted!) I have been made to feel like an absolute burden. So no, I am not happy paying more tax - revamp the model, look at longer terms issues and then I will be happy.

No doubt I will get roasted again, come at me Barbara from Mumsnet, tell me how throwing money at a problem will magically make it disapear and please, please, please tell me why NHS think they deserve the biggest payrise over anyone else in this climate :)

Well,the government managed to come up with 2.3bn to send to Ukraine.

Clearly there is money that can be accessed if needed- just not for things the government do not have an interest in.

Yes!!

People should pay more attention!!
Also, where did all this extra ££ go that the NHS were going to receive after Brexit...

But it's throwing money at an issue!!

The NHS is poorly managed, alot of much needed services have been slashed too - so how shall we fix all of that?

Oh I know, lets pay higher wages... I mean, these issues wont exist after that :)

This!!!

Cut pay for the fat cats?

With all the public workers getting good pensions, the country is broke. I know many people who can't get a pension and working beyond the trad 65 age.
As a nurse I will be able to take my NHS pension at 67, after paying into it for 37 years.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been pointed out, but those of you willing to pay more tax to support nurses and other workers are already free to contribute more to the government's bank balance. All you need to do is send a payment to HMRC and they will happily receive your contribution.

I wonder how many of those who say they're happy to pay more tax are actually doing so?

Private schools should pay tax too.