For all those who support the strikes

[chopc]

Where do you think the money will come from for all the pay rises? Are you personally willing to pay more tax?
We all saw during the pandemic it is the poorly paid essential workers that kept the country going and they totally deserve more money than the claps they got. However will YOU be prepared to contribute to the pot ?

If not where do you think the govn will find more money from?

I have to agree. Plus managers on £100k+ who aren't clinical staff. Give these monies to doctors, nurses, midwives and paramedics. No use of managers if there's no service. What are they pretending to manage.

@chopc
‘Are you personally willing to pay more tax?’

Yes.

HTH.

Small place they found a billion quid to bung to the DUP in order to keep the Tories in power. There's plenty of money sloshing around when they want it for something. This breaking down of public services is ideological.

Why don’t you have a union? I work for a charity too. We have two unions. Unite and an independent one. And I note that Shelter staff have been on strike this week so they must be unionised.
If you think a union would be helpful in your workplace give Unite a call and get organising. Workplace unions don’t just appear, people make them
happen.

I feel like we are stuck between two untenable political choices. The right seeks to cut public spending, and leave most things to individual responsibility. Then there is the left that would seek to increase borrowing, and pass on the financial burden to future generations to pay for the stuff we want in the now, which is unethical as the people we are asking to foot the bill either aren’t even born yet or old enough to vote. It’s a similar way we wreck the environment without any thought to those coming after us.

Clearly both situations are untenable, and whilst it’s really tempting to think well tax big business, or the richest 1% or even 10% will sort it. Yet that really isn’t going to capture the sorts of revenue to maintain all public services and pay workers what they are worth. We’d have to tax working classes and middle classes way more to even get close to that, and as a country we simply don’t vote for that. So that shafts both Labour and the Tories, as they would never have the sorts of policy options available to them to affect meaningful change without massively rolling back on manifesto promises (the both always argue they will be the party of low taxation).

We the electorate are as part to blame as they are. In fact I often think part of the point of politicians is we use them as scapegoats, we vote them in, give em a run at it for a decade or two, then get sick on their particular flavour of bullshit and blame them in total for everything we don’t like, and go on to vote in the next bunch with our consciences artificially clear.

We are moving away from centre based politics and being able to reach the meaningful compromises of consensus based politics. We need to start thinking very differently.

*same place

@Dervel - don't be coming in here with your reasonable, logical political thoughts.

TAX THE RICH, FIX EVERYTHING!

:D

I think if nurses get a rise which they should , then so should care workers nursery workers etc. As a nursery worker we are often working over ratio as we have no staff. That’s a safety issue in itself but not seen as important because it’s childcare.

.Are you personally willing to pay more tax?

Absolutely not. My household pays more than their fair share of tax into the system.

25% pension. Jesus….my co. pays 4%. I got a 2% pay rise in 2022. I worked all the pandemic as a key worker, but not NHS. Not saying they don’t deserve a pay rise, but I do too. The govt. can take it out of other means, but I don’t want to pay more tax, higher rail costs etc.

Yes, but I think government should try to find as much as possible from higher earners. Why are shareholders getting silly money while everyone else struggles?

I believe that ordinary working people pay plenty enough tax to expect quality public services. However, successive governments have frittered our taxes away on failed privatisation (look at the subsidies to train operating companies), shareholder dividends and unnecessary debt interest payments.

As a middle earning key worker family I envision the outcome for us is basically a small pay rise that will be clawed back through tax 🤷‍♀️

I absolutely would be prepared to pay more tax, in fact in sensible world that should happen.
I support anyone's right to collective strike action. I hope they get something near what they need.

Yes, I would pay more taxes to support the nurses and other striking public employees.

But I am infuriated to be doing so in the face of the financial carnage imposed on the country as the Tories have repeatedly supported their mates, vanity projects and ideological fallacies ahead of the public interest. PP’s including @Whyjustwhy123 , @AelinAshriver and whoever reminded us about HS2 have shown that public sector workers and services could easily be properly funded by a government with any integrity.

Still an incredibly good wage for a job that requires no qualifications or experience, and where you can just turn up once to swear in and not be seen again for five years - whereupon you get a nice payment for being sacked.

Then there is the left that would seek to increase borrowing, and pass on the financial burden to future generations to pay for the stuff we want in the now

I think you must be very muddled this morning. Get that second cup of coffee and review the facts. How much has the national debt increased under the last 12 years of the Tories? How exactly has a decade of austerity helped the country?

From where I'm sitting, we have a massive amount of interest to pay on borrowing that the Tories have borrowed, that we will be paying back for generations.

Shame your 'logical' viewpoint is so full of holes it resembles swiss cheese.

And what do they need pensions for when there's a paid retirement home in the form of the House of Lords?

Those in skilled work should not be claiming universal credit. Neither should any skilled worker be allowed to claim universal credit because they only work 16 hours per week unless they have a disability or disabled child or someone else for whom they are a principal carer.

If nurses get what they are demanding, the teachers, police, and all other sectors will follow.

Our circumstances are similar to @RegularNameChangerVersion21 and whilst we would accept paying more tax, under no circumstances would I be prepared to accept the present standards of patient care in the NHS. I also think it's interesting that despite the media coverage very few hospitals.were affected by yesterday's nursing strike.

There have been many comments on this thread about the PPE fiasco over PPE. I understood that NHS England had purchased the PPE but lost sight of the fact it was out of date. That marvellous institution run by Sir Simon Stephens who was spectacularly silent during Covid having been a former adviser to BLiar.

For the pp quoting £3k per month childcare/nursery costs, and wanting free childcare I would like to respectfully point out that children are the responsibility of their parents for whom financial planning is required. The costs also only prevail for a brief and limited period. I absolutely would not be prepared to subsidise other people's childcare. It's a personal choice over career v childcare and one where women in particular need to plan and compromise vis a vis career/full time parenthood. It is an argument for a different thread.

Things are tight, covid appeared from nowhere and imo the economy should not have shut down as it did. It was followed by the declaration of war on Ukraine. It is an unprecedented period. I am not aware that economies are better across Europe and in the EEC countries. The thing that is better across most of Europe are health services. Giving nurses a pay increase is not going to improve UK healthcare. A root and branch inquiry comprising a cross party panel, and a judge or two, I to its running and future viability, with freedom to suggest alternative models would be the only thing to effect an improvement.

They could reverse the tax cut for the banks - this is estimated to lose circa £7.2 billion in revenue …. That might be a start.

Stop paying millions storing faulty PPE which was obtained during the (truly dodgy) fast track contract process.

Stop using tax payer money to fund Boris’ legal fees (ok that one doesn’t make much difference but just boils my piss!)

Chase tax evaders / people who defrauded the Covid grants. Close tax loopholes ….

Also yes I would pay more tax!

@RosesAndHellebores it is very much a matter of public record that the UK economy is doing the worst amongst the G7 economies and amongst the major Western European economies. (In terms of growth)

This is, in part, the fallout of the disastrous decision to tank the economy by locking down the UK for protracted periods of time during Covid. It was a succession of decisions backed by all major political parties (in fact, Labour were calling for a delay to a return to normality) but ultimately the Tories have to take this one on the chin and deal with the horrendous consequences.

You are describing a false and over-simplistic picture of left vs right. For a start off, this "low tax" "personal responsibility" government has borrowed more than any in history and we have record levels of tax. Recent Tory governments only cut public spending on direct funding, they funnel plenty of taxpayer money to private companies - that's ideology not fiscal responsibility.

What the fuck are you doing coming here on Mumsnet with that misogynistic shit about women having to plan and compromise, like men aren’t involved in the whole baby making thing? Children are essential for a functioning society and society should balance some of the costs of them to ensure women aren’t forced to stay at home. Women have had enough of this crap.

This. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg.

It's quite easy, give lower paid public sector workers like nurses and teachers a good payrise and give none to higher paid management. There's no need for a blanket payrise and I don't know why it has to be done this way.