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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What will happen if nurses and other professions don't get their pay rise?

161 replies

malificent7 · 15/12/2022 14:21

The country has come to enough of a standstill as it is. I fully support them btw....do they keep striking?

OP posts:
Maggie178 · 29/01/2023 06:59

Tessasanderson · 15/12/2022 15:56

I fully support giving you all a pay rise. If you dont mind me asking, what would you do if you left? You must have some very specific qualifications and earn a pretty good wage (I have family at similar levels). If you quit, what would you do to earn the same or more? Surely the job you are doing doesnt offer much options elsewhere. I often wonder what the quit option actually means for some

I'd leave and work for a locum agency. I'd get paid more. The government would be paying me more but they'd also be paying an agency fee. Already have four locums in my department. Half of them used to work in the department under NHS. I suppose it's a way of slowly privatisation staff. It certainly doesn't cost the government less just means a middleman gets paid too.

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 07:40

Corcory · 29/01/2023 01:08

I don't think anyone would dispute that nurses and paramedics should be paid more but where will the money come from? Government borrowing, from funds that should go to patients? More and more people would want pay rises and as they are settled interest rates will go up, mortgages would go up and cost would go up getting us all into a dreadful inflationary spiral. I actually think that the government are trying to sit all these strikes out as they can see inflation going down thus reducing the possible wage increases.

We've found the money to pay prison officers a starting wage of 32k with no qualifications or previous experience necessary.

They deserve this wage, but it does highlight how unfair a starting wage of 27k is for a graduate profession that is highly stressful.

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 07:42

My same job in a private hospital pays 10k more, plus a 5k welcome bonus, with significantly less stress and better conditions.

Kazzyhoward · 29/01/2023 07:47

Maggie178 · 29/01/2023 06:59

I'd leave and work for a locum agency. I'd get paid more. The government would be paying me more but they'd also be paying an agency fee. Already have four locums in my department. Half of them used to work in the department under NHS. I suppose it's a way of slowly privatisation staff. It certainly doesn't cost the government less just means a middleman gets paid too.

The employer (NHS) doesn't have the same obligations when using an agency and the employee doesn't get the same benefits, i.e. generous sick/maternity pay, pensions, etc. so yes there's an agency fee but you have to offset the other liabilities they save.

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 08:39

Kazzyhoward · 29/01/2023 07:47

The employer (NHS) doesn't have the same obligations when using an agency and the employee doesn't get the same benefits, i.e. generous sick/maternity pay, pensions, etc. so yes there's an agency fee but you have to offset the other liabilities they save.

Why of people struggle with the concept of agencies?
Agency fees include the cost of employing a person. Currently, the government is covering that cost.
That applies to any job.
accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/insights-articles/how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-employ-someone-1/

A clear example is.
The real cost of an employee
You might think that you’re going to pay your employee £18,000 per year, but on top of this, you need to allow for a variety of additional costs.
Let’s have a look at them:
After adding all of these up, the picture starts to look quite different… That £18,000 a year you started with is growing bigger and the cost per hour is increasing. It’s no longer the £9.89 per hour (for a 35-hour week) that you budgeted.
In fact, your costs are now almost double the amount. Your employees are likely to cost you over £33,000 per year (that’s £18.13 per hour).

Agencies cover the costs of employment then they factor in a margin so they can make a profit.
This is why DP employs subcontractors.

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 08:40

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 08:39

Why of people struggle with the concept of agencies?
Agency fees include the cost of employing a person. Currently, the government is covering that cost.
That applies to any job.
accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/insights-articles/how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-employ-someone-1/

A clear example is.
The real cost of an employee
You might think that you’re going to pay your employee £18,000 per year, but on top of this, you need to allow for a variety of additional costs.
Let’s have a look at them:
After adding all of these up, the picture starts to look quite different… That £18,000 a year you started with is growing bigger and the cost per hour is increasing. It’s no longer the £9.89 per hour (for a 35-hour week) that you budgeted.
In fact, your costs are now almost double the amount. Your employees are likely to cost you over £33,000 per year (that’s £18.13 per hour).

Agencies cover the costs of employment then they factor in a margin so they can make a profit.
This is why DP employs subcontractors.

Why do?
Not why of.🙄

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 11:52

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 08:39

Why of people struggle with the concept of agencies?
Agency fees include the cost of employing a person. Currently, the government is covering that cost.
That applies to any job.
accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/insights-articles/how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-employ-someone-1/

A clear example is.
The real cost of an employee
You might think that you’re going to pay your employee £18,000 per year, but on top of this, you need to allow for a variety of additional costs.
Let’s have a look at them:
After adding all of these up, the picture starts to look quite different… That £18,000 a year you started with is growing bigger and the cost per hour is increasing. It’s no longer the £9.89 per hour (for a 35-hour week) that you budgeted.
In fact, your costs are now almost double the amount. Your employees are likely to cost you over £33,000 per year (that’s £18.13 per hour).

Agencies cover the costs of employment then they factor in a margin so they can make a profit.
This is why DP employs subcontractors.

I'm not sure you understand the costs involved in healthcare staffing?

Agency nurses often get double the standard rate of substantive staff, plus the agency fee.

My ward is massively (6 figures) over budget solely because we use agency staff out of necessity to plug nursing vacancies.

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 12:13

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 11:52

I'm not sure you understand the costs involved in healthcare staffing?

Agency nurses often get double the standard rate of substantive staff, plus the agency fee.

My ward is massively (6 figures) over budget solely because we use agency staff out of necessity to plug nursing vacancies.

I'm not sure you understand the specific costs of providing a service and how this is shared across the different parties, agencies, and the government.
This is an issue with people who work in the public sector, unfortunately.
You're only seeing how these interactions relate to your budget.

PrincessConstance · 29/01/2023 12:33

RumandSpinach · 29/01/2023 11:52

I'm not sure you understand the costs involved in healthcare staffing?

Agency nurses often get double the standard rate of substantive staff, plus the agency fee.

My ward is massively (6 figures) over budget solely because we use agency staff out of necessity to plug nursing vacancies.

Just to add.
The article highlights s an issue that is very telling and specific to all services delivered by the public sector.
Unproductive and wasted hours
You may have told your new employee that they will work a 35-hour week, but how many productive hours will they really work during the year? A considerable portion of the working hours you pay for is for the time your team is not actually being productive or generating profit. For example:
Statutory holiday allowance
Sick leave
Maternity/paternity leave
Training
Other non-productive time: visiting the restroom, brewing coffee, surfing the internet, or socializing
And there is the risk of employees with poor performance or issues that could cost you additional time and increased hidden costs.

Criticism of public sector budgets and the workforce generally points in this direction. Governments and specific departments tackle this by using the word, 'efficiency'.

kitcat15 · 29/01/2023 12:51

AthenaPopodopolous · 15/12/2022 19:11

A school mum acquaintance mum was delighted she got a pay rise as a mental health nurse, 7.5% here is Scotland. She was wondering whether to take her family on holiday or low it on something else but the tone was quite flippant to my mind.
im glad for her but I reckon them at her wage rise will probably be ‘blown’ on the gas and electric bills. I think nurses are quite well paid really in comparison to many female dominated professions.

🤣🤣🤣 there's a comedian in the room 🙄

kitcat15 · 29/01/2023 12:59

Tessasanderson · 15/12/2022 15:56

I fully support giving you all a pay rise. If you dont mind me asking, what would you do if you left? You must have some very specific qualifications and earn a pretty good wage (I have family at similar levels). If you quit, what would you do to earn the same or more? Surely the job you are doing doesnt offer much options elsewhere. I often wonder what the quit option actually means for some

In the past 3 years...in my community team .....8 have retired at 55 on full nhs pension and gone to wprk ad bank nurses...with bonuses each month on completion of x y and z number of shifts......2 have become nursing lecturers....2 have got jobs in sales ( medical devices ...very lucrative work).....1 has taken and works ad hoc at a private clinic doing botox injections.... 1 has taken a job as school nurse at a private school....1 has emigrated......loads of scope out there if you look hard enough

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