What will happen if nurses and other professions don't get their pay rise?

[malificent7]

The country has come to enough of a standstill as it is. I fully support them btw....do they keep striking?

Maybe you guys should unionise then? Our system runs on the basis of trickledown wealth which is a lie. If you want to stimulate the economy and get people spending you would be better giving money to those workers on strike who will then go and spend it in their communities and benefit the private sector in that way than what the Tories doo which is give cuts to their rich mates to sit untouched in off shore accounts. We're still a rich country, none of use should be paid so little we can't afford food and heating and yet and yet.

I’ve been a nurse 20 + years. I can’t strike today as I work for a hospice however our hospice just follows the nhs pay scale.
I currently work bank but due to costs I’m now going to do agency instead as I can earn more than double. I’m sick of earning near minimum wage. Love my job but I need to pay bills and pay for my kids.

Average earnings excluding bonuses in the private sector have risen 6.9 per cent over the past year, according to the latest official data — far too high for the Bank of England’s liking as it battles to bring inflation back to its 2 per cent target. But public sector earnings have grown just 2.7 per cent — lagging by one of the widest margins on record.

twitter.com/fteconomics/status/1602791100175077377?s=46&t=cHx0cIL4m2cASQt1gC5-Fg

Margin of growth, not margin of earnings.

I suppose they will leave? And the NHS will be privatised?

Feel free to inform the FT Florenz.

You are aware that the nurses also pay tax and so it's not solely on private sector workers to contribute?!

Many people will have no option but to leave the NHS. Staffing will become impossible. Various services will get sliced off and handed to private providers ‘to protect core NHS services’.
Pay and conditions won’t improve, more will leave, more services privatised until we have a tiny or non-existent NHS and the Tories have a lot of happy sponsors.

We all need to argue for better pay and conditions for everyone.

Maybe that's the solution to all our problems then. Give public sector workers a hundred percent payrise, after all, they'll pay much more tax. The increased tax that council workers pay can pay for the nurses payrise, and the increased tax that the nurses pay can pay for the council workers payrise.

They'll have to find a better job, then, eh?

Oh wait. That's already happening.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-16/work-more-or-get-better-paid-jobs-to-afford-rising-prices-says-minister

Nah. They'll just have to privatise the healthcare system. The average nurse will then get paid what he/she is worth (that's around $80k in the USA), then the public will be charged a small fortune every time they need anything.

That's much better than giving nurses 19% on their £25k.

Where does the money come from?

Well

We had the 11 billion that Rishi cost us when he forgot to insure the national debt.

And we had the 37 billion for the failed Test and Trace that never really cut infection.

And we had the 9 billion for the defective PPE.

And we had the 30 billion that Liz Truss cost us in her Mini Budget.

And of course we've had the 31 billion that Brexit has cost us so far. Which adds us to 118 billion.

So there's no magic money tree and we simply don't have the money for these pay rises for the public sector. It's just maths.

Or is it a corrupted Tory Government?

Just had a message from a striking colleague to say that they've all been called back in, as the people covering were only on short days.

Ok so where can the government find the money to avoid making cuts?

Easy. A series of weath tax:

End Non Dom Status - 3 billion pounds

Annual 1% tax on wealth over 5million - 10 billion pounds

45p income tax rate over £80,000 and a 50p rate for income over £125,000 - 6 billion.

Finally, if you equalise dividends and capital gains tax with income tax rates, that would raise 21 billion pounds.

These measures would raise 40 billion. This isnt thinking about a windfall tax or ending the loophole which allows the rich to not pay tax on their companies (Google, Amazon etc) or the super rich squirrling away their billions in offshore accounts...

Perhaps MP's could put an end to paying their energy bills from their second homes on expenses and allowances when they earn £84,000 anyway. This is when their pay has increased by 28% since 2010 and have had a £2200 pay rise this year alone during the cost of living crisis.

But there's no money for nurses....

The problem is the government know that with healthcare workers, the NHS is the biggest employer. There are not enough alternatives for most nurses to go and work elsewhere.

Most nurses also can't in reality afford to simply stop. For many, even though the pay is not good enough, they need the money.

Many nurses also really do love what they do, the patients etc, they have a vocation.

All these things mean that as a workforce they are vulnerable to being taken advantage of for too little money.

I hope they hold out for a good deal, i really do, but i worry that as a pp said we'll end with an agency structure where nurses refuse to work directly for NHS and go via agencies to access bettee pay. A bad option because this will cost the government far more.

Finally, if you equalise dividends and capital gains tax with income tax rates, that would raise 21 billion pounds.

Not sure how you've worked this one out? Do you work in tax? Im going to guess not.

I don't work in tax no. But Richard Burgon did as an employment lawyer who I quoted directly from.

vm.tiktok.com/ZMFsgdXyp/

HTH 🤷

Interesting
I'd put corporation tax up before any of this

are the government thinking that the NHS will be like care homes, just a profit option? I don't think many people will want to start private hospitals so I can only conclude they really want to recreate Victorian Britain.

That is a good question OP.
We could see nurses leaving in mass.
I wish the government would offer something fair, but I have little hope with this lot.
That is why I think we should demand new elections. Now.

Taxing everything to the hilt is no good answer when companies and people have options - ie more favourable countries

@ohsotired2022 but no public sector, local government or civil servant has. I've worked in the public sector for 12 years and never got more than a 1% payrise.

I support the strike fully but if they get 19% or even 10% the entire public sector will likely down tools for the same.

I wouldn't want to tax everything to the hilt. Just saying a corp tax raise is where I'd start.

Uh…public sector staff pay the same level of tax as you do.

The money they receive from tax revenue is for the work they do though, same as police officers and any other public sector workers. They "give" us all their labour, skills and knowledge.

If private sector workers don't like their pay and conditions, they can vote with their feet and move to the public sector. They can even train to be nurses if they fancy it.

Will the tax payer be happy when there are no nurses at all?