To wonder if we should sleep train for our sanity?

[newmumtopreciousbaby]

I saw the controlled crying thread and some people are so judgmental about sleep training methods, but what if you are worried you are going to go insane or have an accident because you are so tired? Surely then it can be in the baby’s interests?

Our nine month old - previously a brilliant sleeper - is waking about eight times a night after a period of sickness. It’s doesn’t seem to be hunger (has always tanked up before bed), developmental (he barely opens his eyes, cries out in his sleep like he’s having a nightmare, immediately settles with boob, or DH patting/singing). The patting and singing works for me sometimes but he usually ends up in bed with me and wants to use me as a dummy. I think it’s a comfort/separation anxiety thing. He has been in hospital.

Both our mental health is suffering and we are arguing, which I hate, especially in front of the baby. I feel like we are getting there on him settling himself again and night weaning, especially as my husband will take him more soon when he’s off (splitting the nights is what helped the baby learn to sleep before I think).

Do we need to bite the bullet and do cry it out? I don’t really care what people think, as babies need mums who can function most of all. But are we missing something? Do you really need to be able to put your baby down and walk out of the room at bedtime?

At bedtime he goes down easily, sometimes during a feed (I try and pop him off and put him down when he’s still drowsy but awake but it’s hard!), sometimes with a cuddle or a song, sometimes in his bouncer, sometimes just by crashing out. So he’s not dependent on one thing at all.

TL; DR: I’m worried we will go insane from sleep deprivation as baby is waking all night. Should we just do cry it out?

Just for a different view - I live abroad and everyone I've met here does some kind of sleep training. It's totally standard and regarded as a skill to be taught - sort of like weaning.

I left the UK well before I had kids, so didn't realize it was such a controversial topic over there.

You did controlled crying at 7 weeks? Jesus Christ. You know even the guy who invented it said you shouldn't do it younger than 6 months, right? It's incredibly damaging to babies that young.

I’ve not read the thread. I’m sure it’s full I’ve very emotive responses each way.

I think you have to do what feels right for you. Your baby will be miserable if you are miserable, so I can totally see why you would be thinking about it. There is way more to a secure attachment bond than whether or not you leave them to cry.

FWIW with my third, I was so sleep deprived and struggling that I felt I wasn’t able to fully respond to his emotional needs. He was tired and miserable, as was I. We tried leaving him to cry it out to see what happened out of sheer desperation.

What happened was that he learnt to put himself to sleep amazingly well. A skill my older kids still struggle with. He’s 3 now and loves going to bed and has slept well since then. he was about 6 months when we did it. He never cried for more than 6 minutes - believe me, I watched that clock. 6 minutes was nothing compared to the amount i of crying we were both doing up until that point due to exhaustion.

I work in child development and one of our psychologists actually filmed his response to me leaving the room for a training video to demonstrate secure attachment. So I’m pretty sure we didn’t break him!

do what feels best for you. The fact that you are questioning and thinking about what that is probably means you are already a great mum.

I sleep trained both of mine using pick up put down. They're both perfect sleepers now. A few nights of crying compared with parents and baby made ill with long-term sleep deprivation - no debate in my mind as to which is more detrimental.

In contrast a family member didn't sleep train and their 4 year old is still up and down at night and ends up in their bed every night.

We did sleep training with our 1st, after I drove straight into a bollard in a car park as I was so tired. She was 18 months and a horrific sleeper. So we did sleep training - took 4 nights and it was awful at the time but it broke the cycle and within a week she was sleeping so much better and having a decent day time nap too. It broke my heart realising how tired she had been most of the time, and it really did change our lives for the better. With our other two, we started the way we meant to go on and had good sleepers by 6 months.

Lack of sleep can really hamper their development.

Thank you for this. I found it very helpful and reassuring. Can you please tell me what you did?

This book has a good sleep chapter, not dogmatic but just outlines the evidence.

He says consistency is very important and whichever method you choose, plan it and stick to it.

He also reassured that there's no evidence sleep training is harmful and there is evidence it works.

Good luck OP.

@newmumtopreciousbaby

We started with nap time as it was a quiet time with the other kids at school. Initially I focused on his awake windows, and started putting him down for naps about 15 mins before he should be asleep. I just popped him down with a mobile on I think. He complained a bit. I think I went in increasing increments of a minute or so. Starting about 2. He never cried for more than 6.
Within a week I could put him down and walk away for 2 naps and bedtime. I did a dream feed for a few months before night weaning. I breastfed him until 2.5. He only wakes at night now if he’s poorly. But he always goes back to sleeping really well as soon as he’s better.
it was the right decision for us. With 2 other kids and a job, I was so tired, irritable and scared I’d get in to a car accident or something.

I did. Was in a mental health downward spiral with 1st. She would only feed to sleep and wake when I tried to transfer her, time and time again. It could take an hour to just put her down and be able to walk away. And then everytime she woke, she needed boob again. So her sleep was crap, and so was mine. I had the worst day of my life, the only time I wished away my baby 😔 And decided something had to change. Tried the gentler methods (pick up, put down etc) but she hated that I was there and wouldn't feed her. So we let her cry. After a few mins of me sobbing the other side of the door, I was about to go in to soothe and try again, when I could hear she was 'crying down' (calming slightly, you know when you hear it). So I didn't go in. Within another min she was asleep. Same things 2 more nights and after that we put her down wide awake with a little song every time, and left. It was so freeing. I fed her at night wakes and if she nodded off I'd prod her a bit to make her stir, and pop her in her cot so she wasn't quite asleep. Around 9m she was barely feeding at the remaining night wake so I just patted her belly for a bit. After a few days of that, we were done and in separate rooms
Similar with 2nd, though he responded to gentler methods and after the first few months, I never fed him to sleep (one of the hardest associations to break). He's 10m and still has 1 night feed around 5am maybe every other night.

There's tons of advice online about gentle methods through to crying. I will say that anecdotally the longer you leave it the harder it is. The experts say the easiest age is around 5-8 months I think. My biggest suggestion, he has to be able to go to sleep on his own if you want night wakes to reduce/stop (he'll just connect sleep cycles once the anything he thinks he needs to get to sleep isn't needed any longer - you say it isnt 1 thing, but its mostly things you are doing, so its a parebtal association so he needs you again in the night). If he's going to nursery soon he will need to know how to go to sleep without being fed or some elaborate ritual. A lot will say they don't need night feeds by around 7-9 months, in my experience this isn't too off base, though I know some who still night feed toddlers. Imo that's a touch odd because after 12m they should be getting the majority of nutrition from solids 🤷‍♀️

Check naps. The schedules which worked for both of mine say at 9m there should be a 30min morning nap around 9.30 (baby awake by 7am, mine sometimes woke closer to 6 at that age though), and a longer one approx 2 hours at 12.30, then bedtime around 6.30-6.45. Lots of people have variations, but broadly 2.5 hours napping over 2 naps in a 12 hour wake period is what most suggest. Our timings flex by maybe 15 mins here and there some days but I am strict with sleep because we all suffer if baby and me aren't sleeping well!! Plus decent nap and bedtime equals freedom and peace!

Oh, also check regression ages....and sometimes they have periods of rubbish sleep right when on the precipice of a gross motor change (ie learning to crawl/walk). Aaaaand, have a really dark room and white noise. I'm talking literally can't see hand in front of face dark. Baby blackout blinds taped to the windows here! Simple bedtime routine every single day (bath/feed/sleeping bag/book/song works for us). The crashing out bit is weird - at this age they're usually so curious they don't just crash unless massively overtired....? Also put to sleep in bed - not bouncer (and do you mean one of reclining bouncers? They have an upper age limit of like 5 months I think, once baby is trying to sit up/doing mini crunches according to paediatric dev specialists)

OP do whatever you feel is right and don't feel guilty, we did sleep training and it worked a treat. So much so we did it at 11 months, it worked after the first night (it was stressful that first night but he did go down eventually and he knew we were there) THEN.. he slept every night from that point to around his 2nd birthday. So basically DH and I got 13 months interrupted sleep!!
I know this isn't the norm but I think sleep training is not cruel, it just allows your child to make that adjustment to understand they are responsible for their own sleep and they can go down themselves. Anyone who said it's cruel is being silly!

Don’t do cry it out, that’s cruel and not recommended.

Use a proper sleep consultant. We did gentle controlled crying at 7 months to save my sanity, and it worked in three nights. With gentle controlled crying you go back in every minute, two minutes, three minutes. It’s hard, but it works, and they get reassured because you keep returning to them.

We did and it was the best thing we did. But it's key to find a method that suits your child's temperment and you feel comfortable with as a parent.

I really recommend Baby Sleep Consultant on Instagram and bought her program. So much information and insight into healthy sleep habits for baby but had a little quiz to help you figure out what method and response is best for your baby.

This was exactly why I sleep trained (gently) by eldest. It was absolutely necessary for my health and wellbeing. It worked very quickly and changed everything.

Yes I know that. But after trying everything else and asking professionals I was getting close to my absolute breaking point.
Until you have been there, you really can’t know.
Oh and no, it wasn’t ‘incredibly damaging’ it was life changing for both my baby and me because after 3 days we both got sleep going forward. Forever.
She’s 13 now by the way. completely undamaged by her 3 days of controlled crying, and has had a wonderful stable childhood with siblings (who were a breeze in comparison).

We focused on nights first of all and as soon as she was able to self settle to sleep, we would leave her when she woke during the nights. So instead of rushing up straight away I really had to force myself to leave her for a few mins. Within a few days instead of fussing when she woke she would resettle herself and just go back to sleep after about ten mins or so. She still wakes during night now but she doesn't cry, she may just chat to herself or have a little movement but will be back asleep within 15 mins. If she does cry we know she actually does need us, usually a nappy change.

Once nights were sorted we did the first nap and again just put her down and left. Then when that one was easy to get her down we did the afternoon nap, I found giving her time to resettle then hardest as she was often more persistent then. But again just giving her enough time to get back to sleep was the biggest challenge.

If you can't handle the crying which I couldn't bare the thought of although I'm not against it just didn't work for my family I just fed to sleep and then it got to the point where the feed to sleep was so short it was about three minutes

Thanks everyone for your insights, you have all been so kind and helpful. I will definitely consider sleep training as something has to give. I really appreciate the reassurance and non-judgment. I think I mixed my terms up btw - not keen on cry it out but some of the other methods sound like they might work. Thanks for giving me light at the end of the tunnel ❤️

This is all so helpful, thank you.

He is definitely overtired. He wants to sleep, I can tell. That’s why he’s crashing out I think.

Yes, it’s a reclining bouncer. We never leave him in it but he still likes it when there’s music playing. I reckon we only have a couple more weeks’ use of it but it helped reassure him while he was poorly (he wouldn’t go on the floor, just wanted to be held) so we kept it going. He’s not crawling but I suspect will simply stand up soon so it’s only a matter of time. Hopefully more movement will coincide with better sleep too!

babies grow fast, behaviours change rapidly. You need to be patient. In a few weeks or months it will I'll be different. Good luck

I never got enough sleep co-sleeping. I was woken every single time they fed, the broken sleep was not sustainable. I did gradual/gentle sleep training approaches to introduce other sleep comforts that didn't involve my breast permanently in their mouths. We left it later with second child and that was a mistake, she was more habituated to having us physically on hand and is still a worse sleeper generally now as an older child. Eldest was sleep trained around 6 months and has slept like a log ever since.

9 months is a peak age for separation anxiety and it does pass, but equally I am not opposed to starting gentle methods of sleep training around this age - I did it with DD2 when she was almost 11 months and stopped needing night feeds (she'd suck until let down and then fall asleep). I did pick up/put down, which is quite labour intensive - the first night I picked her up loads of times in the space of her usual waking interval. The second night it was a handful of times, the third night she slept through.

I am vehemently opposed to cry it out.

Way over the top, if course it's not abuse or neglect.

It's simple. If you're suffering, then you need to do something. Your suffering impacts the baby.

It was the same for me with both kids. I sleep trained them both at around 8-9 months. They were EBF babies.
Two, three nights tops (that weren't agonising at all) and then life carried on, happily. They slept, I slept they weren't scarred for life, they were they same confident happy bubbly babies, and perhaps happier for the fact that THEY slept better. The world kept spinning and we were all in a much better place.

In these situations, anyone who refuses to sleep train is a martyr who is doing absolutely NO favours to themselves OR their child. Seriously, we forget that we owe it to them to help them get a decent night's sleep too.

Nobody can or should tell you what to do with your baby. If you feel this is the right timing for you all then do it.

Good luck, and enjoy the rest!!

Yes sleep train it will improve your life so much. Done in a few days and you will be a better mother after proper sleep.
Try takingcarababies on Instagram, she has lots of tips to help.

sleep trained both of mine with controlled crying at 9months. it was that or check myself into a psychiatric unit with a breakdown. The day I was pulled over by the police for going through a red light due to sheer exhaustion was a particular low point.

Honestly, it might be sub-optimal, but so is having a parent who is just a shell.

My DC are now 15 and 12 and doing great. Who knows, perhaps they're damaged on the inside, but I'm pretty confident they're doing well enough in life to be able to pay for some really good therapy .