To wonder if we should sleep train for our sanity?

[newmumtopreciousbaby]

I saw the controlled crying thread and some people are so judgmental about sleep training methods, but what if you are worried you are going to go insane or have an accident because you are so tired? Surely then it can be in the baby’s interests?

Our nine month old - previously a brilliant sleeper - is waking about eight times a night after a period of sickness. It’s doesn’t seem to be hunger (has always tanked up before bed), developmental (he barely opens his eyes, cries out in his sleep like he’s having a nightmare, immediately settles with boob, or DH patting/singing). The patting and singing works for me sometimes but he usually ends up in bed with me and wants to use me as a dummy. I think it’s a comfort/separation anxiety thing. He has been in hospital.

Both our mental health is suffering and we are arguing, which I hate, especially in front of the baby. I feel like we are getting there on him settling himself again and night weaning, especially as my husband will take him more soon when he’s off (splitting the nights is what helped the baby learn to sleep before I think).

Do we need to bite the bullet and do cry it out? I don’t really care what people think, as babies need mums who can function most of all. But are we missing something? Do you really need to be able to put your baby down and walk out of the room at bedtime?

At bedtime he goes down easily, sometimes during a feed (I try and pop him off and put him down when he’s still drowsy but awake but it’s hard!), sometimes with a cuddle or a song, sometimes in his bouncer, sometimes just by crashing out. So he’s not dependent on one thing at all.

TL; DR: I’m worried we will go insane from sleep deprivation as baby is waking all night. Should we just do cry it out?

OP it’s so hard. I’m currently in the throes of a mental breakdown due to such severe sleep deprivation. Spoke to my GP who actually recommended sleep training in the form of controlled crying.

I just don’t have the energy to start it but I don’t feel there’s any other option for us.

I do think the point about driving is a big one I know a lot of mums who have children who barely sleep and are anti any form of sleep training but are driving them around. They wouldn’t drive without a car seat or while drunk but driving with chronic sleep deprivation must be just as dangerous. I don’t know what the answer is as haven’t had to sleep train myself but I do think getting enough sleep that you can drive safely if you need to should be very high priority and come ahead of concerns about a child crying for a few minutes.

Read Emily oster, cribsheet. She’s looked at research into whether sleep training works (it does) and whether it’s harmful (it’s not.)

everybody has so many opinions about motherhood- I’ve found it really helpful to have one resource I can go to that has data, not just opinion or theory.

For those that did sleep train, what did you do about naps/night wakings?

I would give it a go if you think it will help.

I will probably have to do it eventually, currently doing “moan it out” where I leave my baby if he’s just moaning with occasional woe is me style sob but if he starts crying loudly and for long period then I do get him up and feed (human dummy) him back to sleep.

his room will be sorted soon so he will be moved so I’m probably going to be more relaxed with cry it out once he’s not right next to me

I’m a Nanny with over 20 years experience and I am a massive advocate for sleep training. Good sleep breeds good sleep.

I’ve sleep trained all the babies I have cared for and the parents were always grateful at the end. It’s not easy and it can feel like you’re the worst person in the world but once it’s done it just makes life so much better.

There's plenty of sleep train options that aren't cry it out if you don't want to do that.

When we did night weaning DP (who was breastfeeding) slept in another room and I had a bed in DS' room. We had everything positioned so that I could soothe him in his cot without leaving my bed! Obviously he was upset, but I was there and so I didn't feel guilty about it (which I had in our brief "leave him to cry" foray), and since I stayed in bed it was much less disruptive for me. Obviously he felt I was useless as within a week he was sleeping through. He was older than 9 months though, so depends a bit on whether you are still feeding overnight I imagine.

Please have a look at the beyond sleep training project on Facebook before just leaving them to cry.

Crying increases stress hormones. Theres evidence that increased levels of stress hormones cause permanent changes to the stress response of a child, which can also affect memory, attention span and can trigger an elevated stress response as an adult and lead someone to be predisposed to anxiety and depression. So lots of cc adults may be “fine” but actually it could have effected them in ways that are not obvious.

No evidence of harm and evidence of no harm are 2 very different things… and it’s never the latter with cry it out or controller crying “studies”

Cosleeping might lead to everyone sleeping for you, for me it would just leave me awake for most of the night, exhausted and with back ache. I tried it, I hated it. It doesn't work for everyone.

I sleep trained both of mine, it worked well.

Sounds like you don't have the energy not to do it either.

Naps were fine for us. They had a good routine with those.

Morning nap tended to be in the pram out and about and afternoon one at home in the cot.

Once we'd done the controlled crying they were sleeping through 90% of the time. If they woke in the night after that it meant they were poorly or something was wrong. It meant we could get to the calpol or solution to their problem much quicker.

Breastfeeding was the main issue for us. Separation anxiety slightly less so, as I'm not the primary care giver.

Right… 😆

Opened this thinking it was going to be about the best way to travel to Scotland.

That's great if it works for you. I started off cosleeping with both of mine from birth. Neither of them slept well. One went into her own cot at 6 months and started sleeping through soon afterwards. The other woke screaming every hour all night long whether cosleeping or not and had to be sleep trained at 6 months as I was at the end of my tether after 6 months of no sleep. Much as I would have loved to cosleep, it didn't work out that anyone got much sleep that way.

We sleep trained for similar reasons. I was suicidal with PND, and DH fell asleep on the sofa with DD asleep on his chest which is obviously so dangerous.
We did controlled crying, leaving her for a few minutes at a time and then going in to soothe her. We went from her waking very 45 mins for 6 months to now (7 months) where she wakes every few hours for a feed and goes straight back down again.

We did the Ferber method (slightly modified times to allow a little more comfort) and we will do it again with our new baby if needed when we hit the 6 month mark ish.

For me, I was so tired and suffering from PND which was definitely made worse by being tired. I struggled to adjust to being a mum, I didn't want to be a mum anymore, I didn't enjoy anything etc etc. It felt like a necessity for me.

Do what you feel is right.

Obviously (most) parents , myself included, don't want to hear our children upset and crying. BUT you have to weigh it up. It's the best thing we did to give our daughter the gift of sleep. She now goes to bed happily, plays with toys and chats through her day and falls off to sleep on her own. She sleeps 6 out of 7 nights and when she does wake, she calls out, we go in and see her, sort out the problem (duvet / teddy etc) and then kiss and nighty night and leave the room again, and she's comfortable enough to drift back off to sleep on her own.

For us it was a game changer x

Thanks @Twizbe this was the same with my dad but unfortunately my ds who can get himself to sleep still wakes loads in the night. Doing controlled crying in the middle of the night just feels insurmountable at the moment!

There are some studies on sleep training. As far as I am aware they all show evidence of no harm. The longest follow up time is 5 years and all studies found no long term difference in either the sleep or the mental health of children at that time point, between those who had been sleep trained and those who hadn't. However the mental health of parents was found to be better if they had sleep trained.

I am not aware of any studies that followed up to adulthood

For some reason people sometimes refer to studies of children who were consistently neglected or abused (e.g. Romanian orphanages or children that have gone into care as a result of severely inadequate parenting) and somehow equate that with sleep training in the context of a loving family.

If it's going to improve your ability to be a good parent, then worth a try. I do think babies need consistency and routine, and you mentioned various ways he falls asleep. Maybe try the same thing everyday so he gets to used to one way of going to sleep, and then always doing the same thing when he wakes.

For us we were exhausted, but our little guy was exhausted too. He wasn’t he enough daytime or nighttime sleep until we sleep trained. We had so many tears beforehand because he was overtired. He tried using the boob as a comforter but he needed restful, restorative sleep and waking up every 45 mins wasn’t cutting it.
Now our lad when we tried sleep training was doing a moany whinge when put into his cot which was better then the crying and fussing he did when we tried other methods. Babies are individuals and what works for one doesn’t always work for another. My second lad sleeps better in cot then cosleeping I know everyone says they sleep better with parents then by themselves but my fella didn’t get that memo. My first happily coslelpt and randomly slept through night himself at 7 months.

I sleep trained and I would do it again. I was exhausted to the point of mental breakdown and physical danger to myself/baby. Co-sleeping didn't get me more sleep or mean much less crying - it just slightly reduced the amount of time it took to get a boob in his mouth. My baby was also exhausted - he became happier almost overnight once he could self-settle. I did leave him to cry but he didn't get wound up and vomit or cry for hours til he passed out. But going in at intervals actually upset him more rather than reassuring him.

It is individual to the parents/child - my second one only needed the pick up/put down method briefly. And he didn't wake nearly as often anyway.

If gentle methods/co-sleeping work (by which I mean everyone gets enough sleep to be safe/healthy) then great. But I don't think it's cruel to want your baby to be well rested and the parents to be mentally and physically well.

Yes it's not easy but the chances are you may get more sleep than you think. Most babies cry less than 2 hours at bedtime (most much less) so that part could be done by 9 pm. Then they may wake less than before but if they do wake again you can do controlled crying again, or if you can't face it just do what you normally do, and tackle the rest of the night once your baby has got used to the initial going to sleep and you are ready, maybe in a few days.

Be warned that sometimes the first wake can be the worst as initial tiredness has worn off.

I think my baby was more resistant to controlled crying than most but even the first night of it he slept more than before. I probably didn't as I spent a lot of time standing on the landing!

Just do it, OP. It only takes three nights of chaos for you, and problem solved.
I wish I'd done it earlier for DD. As it was, I waited until she was two and a half.

DD does not remember it and it hasn't harmed her.

Honestly, some people are in the situation that no matter what they do- (co sleeping / extra cuddles etc) they just arnt getting sleep.
Until you have been in that position with no help and feeling like you are literally failing your baby daily and about to have a hideous accident because neither you nor the baby are getting sleep, you really can’t know what it’s like. It’s sheer desperate panic. I’ve had 3 kids and my first didn't sleep. I’m not exaggerating when I say she slept for 4 hours out of every 24 in 1 hour bursts. That would be on the breast / after a bottle / when being held / when being pushed in buggy / when in car literally anywhere. 1 hour max and 4 hours max in 24. Took her to GP’s, nurses and they all just said ‘oh yes, sometimes babies don’t sleep’ there was nothing else wrong they could see.
But the problem was I was broken. By 7 weeks I was absolutely broken. I was on my own pretty much with her.
Tried controlled crying at 7 weeks. After day 3 she slept on and off for most of the night. That continued most nights thereafter. It was the best thing I’ve ever done.
Those first 7 weeks were the worst of my life when they should have been the happiest.