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To think that the Cambridge Dictionary doesn’t know what a woman is?

274 replies

HoofWankingSpangleCunt · 14/12/2022 07:46

Cambridge Dictionary changes definition of woman

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d0d69d58-7b0c-11ed-bcd8-855e06175970?shareToken=145378cb575d0ff12d97278f7355f1c8

This has fucked me right off this morning.

OP posts:
ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 12:43

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 12:40

They don't use the word that way. You did, just now, to make a point. Skim read is not in general usage to mean the same as close read. If people, for some reason, started using the term skim read to refer to close reading then the dictionary could go ahead and add that as one possible definition.

Why are you objecting to this? What's the problem with multiple contradictory definitions of the same word?

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 14/12/2022 12:47

Well well! More of an argument over what 'skim read' means that what 'woman' means.

How illuminating!

wincarwoo · 14/12/2022 12:48

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 14/12/2022 12:47

Well well! More of an argument over what 'skim read' means that what 'woman' means.

How illuminating!

Actually the argument over one is proving the point of the other.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2022 12:48

What's the problem with multiple contradictory definitions of the same word?

Er, accurate communication?
Particularly vital in the context of legislation.

Allowing the meaning of 'woman' to shift is causing real problems for women, and it's why it's now important to make sure legal definitions are clear

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=5&reply=122266951

wincarwoo · 14/12/2022 12:50

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2022 12:48

What's the problem with multiple contradictory definitions of the same word?

Er, accurate communication?
Particularly vital in the context of legislation.

Allowing the meaning of 'woman' to shift is causing real problems for women, and it's why it's now important to make sure legal definitions are clear

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=5&reply=122266951

I'm pretty sure the PP was being sarcastic.

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 12:50

TheKeatingFive · 14/12/2022 12:43

They don't use the word that way. You did, just now, to make a point. Skim read is not in general usage to mean the same as close read.

It all starts somewhere. Why is Rene's point not valid but the first person to use woman to mean 'what I feel in my head' is?

Because we're talking about real-world word usage. The PP said that a 'minority' of people use the word in that way and then went off on one about how they don't agree with that word usage. And would use different words. It's irrelevant because a lot of people use the word woman when referring to somebody who has transitioned to woman. The only way you can argue against that is to say no, people don't do that.

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 12:52

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 12:43

Why are you objecting to this? What's the problem with multiple contradictory definitions of the same word?

You can definitely have that. If different people in society use the same word in contradictory ways. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head tbf but if that existed then it could be in the dictionary, why not?

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2022 12:52

I'm pretty sure the PP was being sarcastic.

But how is one supposed to know?Grin

Oldwomanatchristmastimes · 14/12/2022 12:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 14/12/2022 12:55

wincarwoo · 14/12/2022 12:48

Actually the argument over one is proving the point of the other.

I got that. But the second seems to have raised far passion in some!

CrownTheTurkey · 14/12/2022 12:57

The whole thing is laughably pathetic.
There are two sexes, male and female, girl and boy, man and woman.
That's it.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2022 12:57

If different people in society use the same word in contradictory ways. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head tbf but if that existed then it could be in the dictionary, why not?

This is, unfortunately, literally a thing. 2nd definition
used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

Thing == (not thing) defies all logic but can exist in a dictionary.

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 12:57

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 12:50

Because we're talking about real-world word usage. The PP said that a 'minority' of people use the word in that way and then went off on one about how they don't agree with that word usage. And would use different words. It's irrelevant because a lot of people use the word woman when referring to somebody who has transitioned to woman. The only way you can argue against that is to say no, people don't do that.

The only way you can argue against that is to say no, people don't do that.

Rubbish. You can argue against it by saying that they are wrong, that there is a clear way to define "woman" that doesn't include male people, and moreover that we need this definition to protect our sex based rights in sports, changing rooms, rape crisis centres and so on. Because I can absolutely guarantee you that the people who traffic or attack women, or rent wombs, or try to crash their spaces know fine bloody well who they are.

A meaningless definition is no definition at all. And for a word to mean one thing, there must be other things it does not mean. Or are you a skim reading teapot?

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 12:59

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 12:52

You can definitely have that. If different people in society use the same word in contradictory ways. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head tbf but if that existed then it could be in the dictionary, why not?

Do you not think it's interesting that you can't think of any other examples? Why has this particular one arisen?

Why did you get so exercised about my definition of skim reading if it didn't matter?

sanluca · 14/12/2022 12:59

Because we're talking about real-world word usage. The PP said that a 'minority' of people use the word in that way and then went off on one about how they don't agree with that word usage. And would use different words. It's irrelevant because a lot of people use the word woman when referring to somebody who has transitioned to woman. The only way you can argue against that is to say no, people don't do that.

There is a vocal group who uses the word woman in a way another group, members of the group that used to fall under the previous usage, object to. Don't the group that used to fall under the previous usage have a right to object? Especially as there are laws and societal conventions around the previous usage that would be void and null if the newer usage is added to it.

For example: womens sport is for adult human females.
Womens sport is now for adult human females and anyone that identifies as woman (but is male).
Womens healthcare should be centered around adult human females, but is still often defaulted to mens healthcare. Now womens healthcare is centered around male and female healthcare, so basically mens again. Or womens healthcare is chopped up to uterus healthcare, ovary healthcare, menopause healthcare etc. Which is an excellent way to dehumanize that certain group of the previous usage.

Prisons. wards. Scholarships. Changing rooms. From the small things to the big things that matter, all change if woman now means male people as well. I think women, the users of the previous meaning, should bloody well have a say in whether they want the new usage to gain traction, doesn't everyone?

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:09

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 12:59

Do you not think it's interesting that you can't think of any other examples? Why has this particular one arisen?

Why did you get so exercised about my definition of skim reading if it didn't matter?

I can't think of any examples at all actually. I don't consider the two 'woman' definitions to be contradictory. There is one type of person who people use the word 'woman' for and then another type of person who people use the word 'woman' for. It's added on but doesn't negate the first one.

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:12

sanluca · 14/12/2022 12:59

Because we're talking about real-world word usage. The PP said that a 'minority' of people use the word in that way and then went off on one about how they don't agree with that word usage. And would use different words. It's irrelevant because a lot of people use the word woman when referring to somebody who has transitioned to woman. The only way you can argue against that is to say no, people don't do that.

There is a vocal group who uses the word woman in a way another group, members of the group that used to fall under the previous usage, object to. Don't the group that used to fall under the previous usage have a right to object? Especially as there are laws and societal conventions around the previous usage that would be void and null if the newer usage is added to it.

For example: womens sport is for adult human females.
Womens sport is now for adult human females and anyone that identifies as woman (but is male).
Womens healthcare should be centered around adult human females, but is still often defaulted to mens healthcare. Now womens healthcare is centered around male and female healthcare, so basically mens again. Or womens healthcare is chopped up to uterus healthcare, ovary healthcare, menopause healthcare etc. Which is an excellent way to dehumanize that certain group of the previous usage.

Prisons. wards. Scholarships. Changing rooms. From the small things to the big things that matter, all change if woman now means male people as well. I think women, the users of the previous meaning, should bloody well have a say in whether they want the new usage to gain traction, doesn't everyone?

I don't think the dictionary is used to make laws. In fact I'm not sure what the dictionary is used for these days. Just a place to record what's happening with language. Generally new words or definitions only go into the dictionary once they've already gained traction.

wincarwoo · 14/12/2022 13:12

@minimarshmallowsmore what about "cat" meaning feline and then "cat" meaning canine. That's equivalent isn't it.

SoupDragon · 14/12/2022 13:13

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:09

I can't think of any examples at all actually. I don't consider the two 'woman' definitions to be contradictory. There is one type of person who people use the word 'woman' for and then another type of person who people use the word 'woman' for. It's added on but doesn't negate the first one.

Wicked

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:14

wincarwoo · 14/12/2022 13:12

@minimarshmallowsmore what about "cat" meaning feline and then "cat" meaning canine. That's equivalent isn't it.

Do people ever use the word cat to mean canine??

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 13:14

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:09

I can't think of any examples at all actually. I don't consider the two 'woman' definitions to be contradictory. There is one type of person who people use the word 'woman' for and then another type of person who people use the word 'woman' for. It's added on but doesn't negate the first one.

Of course you can't, because in general people do accept that words mean things, and to mean one thing they have to not mean other things. A cat is not a fireplace. A teapot is not a king. A man is not a woman. Male is not female.

So why do you think it is happening now, with such force, when it comes to the word used to define and identify female people? Why would they lose their word when it doesn't happen elsewhere? What happens to women's sports, prisons, business awards, changing rooms, crisis centres, when woman no longer means a female born person?

Cui bono?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/12/2022 13:14

people who have transitioned are often referred to as the sex they have transitioned to

You can't change your sex, it's a complete nonsense.

ReneBumsWombats · 14/12/2022 13:15

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:14

Do people ever use the word cat to mean canine??

Why shouldn't they? What would the problem be?

minimarshmallowsmore · 14/12/2022 13:15

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/12/2022 13:14

people who have transitioned are often referred to as the sex they have transitioned to

You can't change your sex, it's a complete nonsense.

The word is used in that way though, isn't it.

FourTeaFallOut · 14/12/2022 13:16

You don't think the shifting of a word that defines a discrete biological thing, to a word that renounces the biological definition of that thing - to be oppositional?