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Original poster

To think this isn't an acceptable way to talk about a child with sen?

272 replies

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 14:13

this was written by my sons class teacher for his ehcp annual review- ds is 9 and has adhd combined type and autism.

"Social/emotional/behavioural Development-

Behaviour during lessons - complete refusal if he does not want to be involved, this can lead to him exiting, singing over the top of the adults, starting a very different activity of his own choosing Etc.
He will get up and walk in front of an adult making an input- he has no care for the learning of others. Often, he will decide whether he believes a lesson is worth his time based on the initial input, if not then he leaves. Unless it is Art or something based around line drawing, in which case he is all in. If it is a lesson that he believes is "worth it' then he will focus and engage for a period and contribute but at the expense of others. He has a very inflated sense of worth. "

to me this reads like he's choosing to have the difficulties he does and that he basically just thinks he's better than everyone and above school work, and like she is making completely unfounded assumptions about his motivations. Baring in mind the opinion of professionals that have assessed him is that he has very low self esteem which is a large part of his struggles with engaging. He also cries about school almost every single night because he can't cope with the environment at all and it and it makes him feel stupid. I've asked him why he doesn't go in the class much and his answer was "nerves kick in and I can't" So to see him being described as having an inflated sense of worth is very upsetting that they can misunderstand him so much.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:01

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 18:59

No, I’m saying that an inability to cope in a classroom that doesn’t support SEN should never, ever be written off as ‘bad behaviour’.

No absolutely not but OP doesn’t believe that her child is acting like this in the class like singing when he doesn’t do this at home, when as I said it’s very common for children to act completely different at home be at school.

There is no reason for the teacher to lie and the more she puts down her experience, the more help he gets.

But posters implying that a person with SEN can never be badly behaved is incredibly offensive.

It’s not anywhere near as offensive as the personal attack the teacher wrote on EHP referral paperwork, or some of the bollocks on this thread about how he can help it, and it’s not SEN if he can draw occasionally.

Anon778833 · 13/12/2022 19:01

But posters implying that a person with SEN can never be badly behaved is incredibly offensive.

You're the one whose posts are getting deleted.

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:02

Every teacher is asked to fill in one of these forms.

Primary is much more difficult but secondary school will have various teachers commenting which will be collated to see the bigger picture.

These forms are to decide if the school can meet his needs and if not what sort of establishment will be best.

If this is how he acts in her lessons then that is exactly how it should be written.

Spendonsend · 13/12/2022 19:04

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 18:58

She might understand that, but what is she supposed to do about it?
So many posters are saying 'the teacher needs to understand him,' but no-one has yet suggested a practical solution for a teacher who is trying to teach a whole class with a child who is constantly disruptive. I don't believe it the needs of one single child trump th we needs of the other 29.

Show quote history

I did. I said she uses the annual review process in a constructive way to secure more support since she is there anyway and thats the whole point of a review. She has the evidence the current plan isnt working but is missing a bit of why.

More support could be a full time 1:1 that takes the lesson plan and tailors it more specifically to this childs interests and allows him the movement break that is already in the ehcp.

Otherwise the report sounds like the child is chosing to be like this so all he has to do is chose not to be so no extra support is necessary.

Rollingupahill · 13/12/2022 19:04

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 18:58

She might understand that, but what is she supposed to do about it?
So many posters are saying 'the teacher needs to understand him,' but no-one has yet suggested a practical solution for a teacher who is trying to teach a whole class with a child who is constantly disruptive. I don't believe it the needs of one single child trump th we needs of the other 29.

Show quote history

She is supposed to implement the EHCP to the best of her ability and to the extent it falls to her to do so. She should understand that his behaviour is likely the consequence of not being able to cope in a ms school. She should describe his behaviour at school and the extent to which this isn't or is supported by interventions at school.

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:05

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:02

Every teacher is asked to fill in one of these forms.

Primary is much more difficult but secondary school will have various teachers commenting which will be collated to see the bigger picture.

These forms are to decide if the school can meet his needs and if not what sort of establishment will be best.

If this is how he acts in her lessons then that is exactly how it should be written.

I’m a teacher. I have to write forms like this all the time, and I have never had to write anything like a personal attack on the kid. And I’d report any of my colleagues who did.

You’re not a teacher.

Punxsutawney · 13/12/2022 19:05

'wrote many EHCPs as a teacher' Teachers should not be writing EHCPs. That is the local authorities job

blackalert · 13/12/2022 19:06

Wibbly1008 · 13/12/2022 18:06

It’s stated factually and that can be hard to read. The inflated self worth is her opinion, she is entitled to that and if she thinks she should put this in the report she can. It’s not nice to read, but children with sen also have very individual personalities as we all do, they are not always angels and have their own characteristics and flaws as we all do.

Since when has someone's opinion been a fact.....

bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 19:06

They have no choice in the matter

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:06

You’re not a teacher.

No I’m not, I used to be.

I now work with just SEND and SEMH students.

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:07

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:06

You’re not a teacher.

No I’m not, I used to be.

I now work with just SEND and SEMH students.

No, you don’t.

Original poster
Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 19:07

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:06

You’re not a teacher.

No I’m not, I used to be.

I now work with just SEND and SEMH students.

Well if that is true then I feel very sorry for the children you work with if you are this ignorant regarding sen.

OP posts:
CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:10

Well if that is true then I feel very sorry for the children you work with if you are this ignorant regarding sen.

So you think the teacher was rude about your son which isn’t fair because he has SEN, yet you’re being rude to me knowing that I also have SEN.
Nice.

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:10

Rollingupahill · 13/12/2022 19:04

She is supposed to implement the EHCP to the best of her ability and to the extent it falls to her to do so. She should understand that his behaviour is likely the consequence of not being able to cope in a ms school. She should describe his behaviour at school and the extent to which this isn't or is supported by interventions at school.

Show quote history

What does his EHPC say? Is he entitled to 1:1 teaching? And for what period of time?

The teacher is describing his behaviour. She very probably does understand that his behaviour is the consequence of him not coping in mainstream school, but that doesn't help her on a day to day basis and it doesn't help the rest of the class either.

Rollingupahill · 13/12/2022 19:11

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:10

Well if that is true then I feel very sorry for the children you work with if you are this ignorant regarding sen.

So you think the teacher was rude about your son which isn’t fair because he has SEN, yet you’re being rude to me knowing that I also have SEN.
Nice.

You are not nine years old

Nevermindthesquirrels · 13/12/2022 19:11

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 17:09

Maybe if this was the only issue but it's not
There's been a wider issue of school refusal and unnecessary use of restraint with this teacher/school, as well as some decidedly fidget things been said in meetings and currently he is in her class 3 days a week so my concern is that her views on his behaviour are clouding how he is treated.

We have had a teacher with similar views before and the damage it caused to him was huge so I am really trying to avoid that.
He had a really great teacher before, who also didn't have much understanding of sen but never treated him badly or was bitchy or judgemental about his difficulties and he engaged with her really well and tried his best to engage and attempt classwork, he did still have many difficulties or course but not flat outright refusal of any and all school work. she seemed to listen to our input instead of dismissing it and ds did really well with her.

Show quote history

I understand. There's always layers to this stuff and years of them. I still think you need to detach yourself from this emotionally if you want your child to have a healthy, strong mum that will get him the support he needs.
People aren't perfect, teachers are under an insane amount of pressure and in an ideal world your son would have all his needs met and wouldn't behave badly, the reality is probably different.
I don't see a problem with what she said but I've read tons of these reports and none of them are ever nice. You really just have to detach yourself from it.

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:11

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:10

What does his EHPC say? Is he entitled to 1:1 teaching? And for what period of time?

The teacher is describing his behaviour. She very probably does understand that his behaviour is the consequence of him not coping in mainstream school, but that doesn't help her on a day to day basis and it doesn't help the rest of the class either.

Show quote history

Tough. Writing the form like this doesn’t help her either.

Sockwomble · 13/12/2022 19:13

"These forms are to decide if the school can meet his needs and if not what sort of establishment will be best."

Which is why the forms need to be clear about where the behaviour is coming from. Otherwise the child can be pushed in the direction of the wrong sort of establishment.

cantkeepawayforever · 13/12/2022 19:13

Punxsutawney · 13/12/2022 19:05

'wrote many EHCPs as a teacher' Teachers should not be writing EHCPs. That is the local authorities job

This was not an EHCP, but a review of an existing EHCP. That will always involve a class teacher, and ime it is rare not to have at least 1 student with an EHCP per class oer year (my record is 3). Teachers also review and write documentation for all other SEN pupiks in the class eg targets, intervention plans, reviews etc.

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:14

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:11

Tough. Writing the form like this doesn’t help her either.

Show quote history

Tough, you say? So the teacher should just shut up and put up? And the rest of the class too?
Writing the form as she did might just escalate things and help to get the child the specialist help he so clearly needs.

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:19

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:14

Tough, you say? So the teacher should just shut up and put up? And the rest of the class too?
Writing the form as she did might just escalate things and help to get the child the specialist help he so clearly needs.

Show quote history

Yes: if the choice is put up or shut up, or ‘write an offensive and inaccurate EHP referal’ then I’d absolutely expect her to put up and shut up. She’s a professional, and we have standards that should actually mean something.

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:24

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:19

Yes: if the choice is put up or shut up, or ‘write an offensive and inaccurate EHP referal’ then I’d absolutely expect her to put up and shut up. She’s a professional, and we have standards that should actually mean something.

Show quote history

It's clear to see that you have never been a teacher.

Anon778833 · 13/12/2022 19:26

CarefreeMe · 13/12/2022 19:06

You’re not a teacher.

No I’m not, I used to be.

I now work with just SEND and SEMH students.

Sure you do Hmm

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 19:27

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 19:24

It's clear to see that you have never been a teacher.

Show quote history

I am a teacher. And I teach kids with incredibly limiting SEN. And I make sure I do my best to make their education a bit less shit.

Anon778833 · 13/12/2022 19:27

Tough, you say? So the teacher should just shut up and put up? And the rest of the class too?
Writing the form as she did might just escalate things and help to get the child the specialist help he so clearly needs.

So you have to insult a disabled person in order to get the support they need? What utter crap.