To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

I remember being left to cry.

I was a bit older, toddler age, and got up. Sat at the top of the stairs crying. Remember the feeling of loneliness and needing comfort.

I also remember the moment I realised no one was coming, and that they were choosing not to.

went back to bed and never did it again. Parents probably think yes it worked, and no harm done. I don’t think I ever went to them for comfort again.

I did it with mine without ever hearing the phrases Ferber Method or Controlled crying. It just seemed the blindingly obvious thing to do if I wanted to get them to sleep on their own. It worked in 3-4 days each time and I think probably the longest any of them were left crying was about 15 minutes. I mean, they've spent longer crying on occasions when I am holding them because they're frustrated or teething of overtired.

It was only after my friend mentioned that she was still getting up every few hours with her 3.5 year old that I asked my family what they'd done. My parents did "controlled crying" with me and my siblings. My grandmother did the same thing with each of her seven children. She had to get up very early to help with farm work and would be working long days- something which realistically isn't going to happen if you're only getting a few hours of broken sleep for the first few years of each of your children's lives. Women before her had it harder still. I seriously doubt that this is in any way a new thing, it's just been given a new name.

Agreed.

The top of the stairs is a really unsafe place to sleep.

I did it with my ds although he was a little older at the time. I was a single mum who worked on an evening. I needed that time to provide for us. He was also incredibly over tired and grumpy from not sleeping through properly. It took 3 nights of a bit of fussing for him to be settled and for me to get my evenings back so I could work. It wasn't pleasant but when done correctly it is best for everyone imo. And that doesn't mean letting them scream and scream for hours on end with no reassurance like some would have you believe.

Sounds very cruel- I wouldn’t leave a toddler crying at night on the stairs- but still control sleep trained.

Just for balance, I know lots of people for whom it didn't work. Or it worked, but they then had to repeat the process over and over again with teething, sickness etc. There is an element of confirmation bias to it, and I sometimes think it works for babies/ children who are going to sleep well anyway and who just need a little encouragement.

While we are going with anecdotes as evidence I also know LOADS of people who didnt' sleep train and whose babies slept perfectly well.

Also, Ferber method is not cry it out. It's timed intervals, while cry it out is leaving a baby to cry untill it stops.

After 6 months I personally don't think it's cruel if they are otherwise well and just don't want to go to bed. It worked a treat for us after a few nights....

Nobody here is suggesting cry it out. People are talking about using controller crying / ferber method. The thread title refers to controlled crying being cruel.

Hmm, my 16 month old cries every nap time. She is absolutely fine she just doesn’t want to go to sleep when there is too much fun to be had elsewhere. I give her a cuddle, tell her I love her and wait outside the door and within a few minutes the crying stops and she sleeps soundly for an hour or two. Despite how much she doesn’t want it she needs that nap! If I stayed in the room with her she wouldn’t settle, she would jabber away trying to get my attention and play. Needs must! I don’t think it’s cruel, she is a happy and secure baby who still looks to me for comfort and reassurance when she is scared of something, or falls, doesn’t feel well etc and we have a great bond. But she sleeps well and we are all better off for it. You know your baby and what they can cope with - if it feels wrong then don’t do it but I wouldn’t go as far as calling other parents cruel, we are all just doing our best.

My children were sleep trained (NOT just left to cry). They are now happy, healthy adults in professional jobs with loving relationships. Encouraging good sleep health is beneficial to everyone.

Not unreasonable at all, that’s your opinion.

other people hold a different opinion and they’re not unreasonable, either. Especially if they’re at the end of their tether.

100% agree.

It’s such nonsense

Problem is, a lot of people see it's the same as cry it out, when it isn't.

It's both prolonged periods of crying to various extents. The principle is the same.

Yes because pushing parents to breaking out to appease people like you is much safer👍

Just hold a screaming baby when your bone tired. That always works out well

Sure, it can be cruel. It can also work well when done properly and within an otherwise loving parental relationship.

For the record, I bedsharwd with both my babies and moved onto them sleeping alone. Second is an absolute star, he is fab at sleeping in his warm cosy cot at night

Anyone talking about Romanian orphanages where there was horrific neglect at the same time as talking about loving parents in a stable country has zero understanding of the research around children's development.
People like you make me angry. It is the epitome of the saying a little knowledge is dangerous.

Also offensive to say compare loved babies being sleep trained by parents to babies in Romania who are literally left both physically and mentally disabled because they are so neglected.

Controlled crying isn't extended periods of crying though. If you are going to pick up the baby as soon as s/he cries then you will consider anything other than that to be an extended period. The idea is that you have a bedtime routine that aims to calm the baby, place in cot and leave the room. If baby cries, go back, pat baby gently, make a shush sound but don't pick them up. Leave the room and repeat if necessary. I admit that I was exhausted when I tried it with my first, but it literally took a few minutes for him to get off to sleep and he slept right through. So did I.

Babies do not always come 100% first. The mother matters too. That is why you put an unhappy baby down so you can take a shower, or go to the toilet, or gets some sleep.
Don't do what I did and fall asleep on the sofa holding a baby crying, only to wake up a tiny bit later to find he had slipped out of my arms and down towards the sofa. Made my blood run cold. He could have suffocated.
Ignore those telling you to martyr yourself and that you do not matter at all.

My sister in law did it with both of her children and they slept enviably well from very young. Both are really happy, lovely children so I’m not sure what terrible damage it’s supposed to have done to them. I certainly enjoy babysitting for them! She’s a highly intelligent woman and I know she did an awful lot of research first before making the decision. She didn’t just put ear plugs in, ignore them and hope for the best, which is what some people on here clearly seem to think happens. I think if someone believes they would feel guilty and cruel and would rather have no sleep for a year than research it properly and try it, then that’s entirely up to them.

Yes, people use 'cry it out' to mean a range of sleep teaching methods ranging from extinction to interval checks to other things like the 'disappearing chair method'.

That's fantastic that you know people who didn't ST whose babies/toddlers sleep well! Genuinely mean that. Based on my small sample size (I know around fifteen 1-4yr olds well enough to know their sleep habits) the vast majority who didn't sleep train are still having pretty bad sleep issues. Unable to fall asleep without assistance, waking multiple times in the night to play/being unable to fall back asleep, not going to bed until very late or rising extremely early.

I'm definitely biased, looking at my kid who slept atrociously until ST and then slept like an angel since, and friends whose kids sleep awfully who didn't ST. Many of them ST their second and subsequent kids due to their experiences with their first. Poor sleep/sleep issues seems to be the norm without some kind of teaching, rather than the exception. And that's okay if someone can/wants to withstand that and has the resources available to do so. But that's really great that isn't the case with your group. One thing I was aware of when choosing to ST was that it's all a gamble. You can not ST and you're gambling on hoping they'll learn to sleep eventually if you can make it that far down the line. You can ST and gamble hoping it works and isn't just a load of stress for no reward. You might not ST and end up with a fab sleeper at 12m, or ST and it not help, or have to be redone. You just have to make the best decision you can with the info available at the time, which will be different for everybody. For many people it's a relief to know that even if they don't plan on ST now or in the near future it's an option should they need to. Poor sleep isn't just something inevitable that will continue until the child figures it out by themselves, it's something you can proactively work on, which benefits the whole family.

I'm so sorry you went through that! And thank you for highlighting the dangers of not ST when it's indicated. People often see ST and think of the perceived downsides, they don't always think of the downsides of not ST. I've known parents crash their cars from falling asleep at the wheel, fall asleep holding their baby on the sofa to a tragic outcome. At a certain point, sleep is no longer a nice desirable optional extra but a fundamental biological need that has to be met or there are grave consequences.

@Kolakalia Thanks. I remember driving and knowing I was far too tired to drive safely but feeling I had no choice.
Being properly exhausted is dangerous. For you and your baby. It is supposed to be equivalent cognitively as being drunk. And no one would leave a baby with a drunk mum. When you know you are too tired to do things safely, get some sleep. Your baby will be okay.

@Kolakalia I agree it's a gamble, either way. My point was it's all anecdotal what you are saying. You had a good experience, great. It worked for you great. But

1. I do think some people who do sleep training have confirmation basis
2. Some babies are more suseptible to it
3. Some babies get there anyway without it.Most in fact. You don't have many 14 year olds cosleeping and still waking to BF at night.

My view, it's not cruel to do, objectively. But it's totally ok to feel it's cruel for your baby and not want to do it. Just as sleep trainers do not deserve to be called cruel, those who choose not to don't deserve to be treated like having a bad sleeper is entirely an issue of their own making and to be told as much.