To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

I personally have never witnessed a baby or toddler self-soothe from a place of distress in the daytime. So I take that to mean they can't do it at night either. If a small child is crying they need someone to help them calm down or else they exhaust themselves but that doesn't mean they've self soothed.

But they’re not distressed in the night!!! Once you’ve done the sleep training they are super happy all night. On the odd occasion they’re not, you of course go to them. I’m beginning to think you’re being deliberately obtuse

You just do what you have to do.

We co slept with our older two until they were 4/5 and they decided to sleep in their own rooms. They are 8 and 20 now and I have none of the issues I was told I was creating for myself.

We co sleep now with our 2 year old.

I keep getting told my husband will leave me (still, after all these years!), but if he hadn’t been on the same page regarding co sleeping, I wouldn’t have had children with him. It was just the natural thing to do for me as I slept in my parents bed until I was 4 and remember feeling so safe. I wanted my children to feel the same way.

We all have different opinions on babies and sleep, I can’t get worked up about what other people chose to do, however many shitty comments I’ve had over the years for co sleeping.

My toddler spends up to an hour singing to himself, talking to his bunny, giggling… and then goes to sleep every night. He’s definitely not upset, just processing the day until he’s ready to sleep.

They don't spend their whole time screaming though. They have learnt to turn over and go back to sleep, that nights are for sleeping and that they feel better during the day. As an aside does no one teach /train their child to do anything? Does everyone wait for the child to decide for themselves?

Well, some will be and some won't. I am sure you know your child well enough to know they aren't. I am not sure you know all the children in this world and can categorically say they won't be upset or distressed at night.

Same as children in Romanian orphanages. I know people bring that up a lot but that's because it's a thing that happens and nobody can say that isn't what's happening to their own child because of sleep training. You're doing the same thing to them, systematically ignoring them until they're quiet. It's perfectly plausible for a child to look to their parent for comfort in the day but know there's no point in calling out at night, so they're quiet at night. I'll get defensive replies to this but that's because on some level you worry it might be true.

This was in response to “minimarshmallowsmore :
I personally have never witnessed a baby or toddler self-soothe from a place of distress in the daytime. So I take that to mean they can't do it at night either.”

This is a ridiculous argument, I’m out.

What age are you talking about? Have you never seen a baby or a small child start crying and then stop? Really?!?

You are totally being played now. By a 4 year old. 😄

It's a funny thing, because if your child is one that doesn't settle it's really hard to imagine one that does.

DD did NOT self settle. We tried all sorts of methods other than CC (which I couldn't do). She didn't grumble or fuss, she cried and then became hysterical and then sometimes became so worked up she threw up. She would take ages to calm down from then, a pat on the head or whatever was recommended did NOT work for her. I remember when I had DS and the first time he just drifted off to sleep. I couldn't believe. I mean I knew it happens. Of course I know, but I just couldn't believe it actually happened to one of my children!

Yeah if they get distracted or someone does something to stop them crying, yeah. Tbf I haven't very often seen babies crying and have nobody come to soothe them, because people don't do that in the day time unless they literally can't. It's generally considered cruel.

Funnily enough my three year old son said the other day "Mother, I'm so glad you sleep trained me. Having that much faith in my ability to settle really showed your belief in me. I love you."

So you know, different approaches can work.

What does "being played" mean in this context? Do you mean my daughter calls out for me in the night because she knows I will come? Is that how I'm being played?

This example is so offensive honestly. You are equating a loved and well cared for child, left for a few minutes of crying in a warm bed, full tummy, parenting returning every few minutes to a seriously neglected child who has been through abuse.

Do you think parents are neglecting their babies when they leave them to cry for a few minutes while they use the loo, or tend to another child, or have to ignore them because they’re driving?

Do you really think sleep trained babies never ever cry again, for anything?!

Yes I understand this. I have two- one who loved to make noise and one who was much more content. As many with more than one can testify ...the second child is often more content because they don't have someone jumping up as soon as they make a noise, because that's life.

Yep, I agree. It's also pretty insulting to the orphans and their trauma and experience. My brother was adopted from an orphanage (Columbia not Romania), we collected him at 3 months old. He - literally - didn't cry. Ever. It is not the same as CC.

Agree. But babies also have very different temperaments/ personalities.

The children in the Romanian orphanages had no one to cuddle them ever, it's beyond belief that anyone would equate how they were treated, the utter cruelty of their lives, with a child who has been sleep trained.

Damn, I knew I'd done something wrong! At 4, my two were mournfully spelling out "Dave Pelzer had it easy in comparison" in their alphabetti spaghetti.

Totally agree!
I suppose @minimarshmallowsmore will come back with " They have learnt not to bother crying"
Very very weird ideas about sleep and children's development.
I would love to see the child who lies there eyes closed, pretending to sleep 😂
Sadly one of mine snored like a pig until he had his tonsils out so I know he was actually asleep and not pretending

This seems like less of a controlled crying issue and more of an issue between you are your partner?

if you are happy now that’s great! You don’t have to do any sleep training if you don’t want to. But how long are you happy to breast feed to sleep for? Does dad feel left out? Are you actually knackered and he’s worried for you? It seems more of conflict about how to approach this in short term versus long term than anything else.

No I don't think you're neglecting your child when you do the things you've got to do before you come to them. You're neglecting your child when you ignore them systematically on purpose in order to get across the message that you don't come when they cry. Guides to controlled crying say you have to leave them in increasing increments of time otherwise they learn you always come after 5 minutes or whatever.

It's not neglectful to take a few minutes to work out what's wrong. At what age do you start letting a child see if they can calm themselves down?

I think it's a weird idea that a baby might be crying at night alone and then think "oh everything must be fine, I'll just fall asleep".