To think it's better to work full time?

[Catslovepies]

I am hosting a guest from Ukraine- she's lovely and no trouble. I helped her get a job interview where I work for an admin job paying £21-£24k based on experience for 37 hours. At the moment she's working in a café for NMW topped up by universal credit. She works about 16 hours a week.

She has now said she's concerned as she will lose her universal credit so will be working a lot more hours for not much more money. I said I thought it would add up to more and that she would still receive child benefit (she has 2 children, 7 and 12). If she gets the job she could work 2-3 days from home and the rest from the office. On the days she works from the office I or DH would do the school drop-off for her and then her daughter would go to after school club for under £5.

So AIBU to think she would be better off working full time or is she right that she would be on approximately the same money as she is now? She has a good work ethic and I would have thought she'd rather work than take benefits she doesn't need but there should be a financial incentive to working surely? I have never been on benefits so don't understand it really but she says this is the reason many English people choose to work part time.

What are the impact of FSM and prescriptions? She will also have 13 weeks a year of school holidays to cover.

And the UK has the second highest childcare costs in the world.

My DP works full time I work part time. We get topped up with a small amount of universal credit (around £300 including child benefit) . I work evenings and weekends to avoid childcare costs. We are financially better off right now than if I was to go full time and put my som in nursery!

If I worked 16 hours a week, I wouldn't get ANY Universal Credit! I can sort of see her point. But I also have a healthcare condition which limits the number of hours I'm supposed to work per week.

I also don't understand how one partner can work full-time, one part-time and you still get £300 per month. This is the amount I get per month period.

I would have thought she'd rather work than take benefits she doesn't need but there should be a financial incentive to working surely?

Yes to both but unfortunately not the case for many people.

As a simgle mum who has worked both full time and part time, in my opinion she's got the right idea! I stopped working full time for this reason

Can't buy more time with kids so if it's a negligible amount of money I'd stay part time

It is true that sometimes it barely pays to work full time, in the short term anyway.

Her benefits will probably top her up to somewhere very similar to what she would earn working full time, if she does under 16 hours.

What she won't get is something great to put on her CV, and the skills and experience to progress her career in the future. So it can be kicking yourself in the foot in terms of a few years' down the line when she could be earning closer to £30k if she build up some experience now.

But a lot of people don't/ can't think that far ahead.

I don’t really get why the system incentives lower hours

A universal credit award is also a gateway to other payments, eg cost of living payments, free school meals etc so it could well be she’s working full time for negligible increase financially.

Goes back to Brown's tax credits, the idea being to get people back into work, even part time, hence the 16 (I think) hours threshold. Of course, without a matching incentive for part timers to go full time, it's just meant lots of people only want to work enough hours to trigger tax credits (now UC), especially with national insurance starting to be charged when people work more. So to work more, you pay income tax and NIC and lose tax credits/UC - hence the stupidly high marginal "tax" where you lose something like 70% of the extra income you earn for working more. Having a limit on deductions of 50% would make a massive difference and incentivise people to work more as they'd keep more of the money they earn. A "sliding scale" rather than cliff-edges such as 16 hours would also help.

@cherriegarcia

But a lot of people don't/ can't think that far ahead

That's the crux really. Far too much short term thinking of "I'll only be a tenner better off" so it's not worth the time. Completely forgetting the bigger picture of better job prospects, promotions, greater experience, maybe more being paid into an employer pension scheme, and of course, what happens when benefits rules change and lots of people are suddenly wanting more hours!

Thank you for the replies so far. Just to point out she won't have any additional childcare costs from working apart from after school club 2-3 days a week as the job is very flexible plus I will be able to help also (I can work alternate days in the office to her). The job also comes with a pension but that won't matter to her as she probably won't be there that long anyway (she wants to go home to Ukraine when it's safe).

Maybe she sees the whole situation as very temporary and is only doing what she needs to to get by for the time being. Does she have a partner back in Ukraine who is usually the main earner? What did she do before the war?

I do think she sees it that way @Nirvanarama . But I still think in her circumstances as well as in most other people's that benefits should be for people who need them, not for people who just can't be bothered to work much. I'm a leftie too but this is ridiculous. I honestly had no idea the system worked this way.

“I honestly had no idea the system worked this way.”

Are you new to MN then? 🤣

No - I'm not from the UK myself and have never been on any kind of benefits so I guess I just had never taken an interest before and must have unconsciously avoided the subject. I do feel a bit of an idiot though!

It’s wrong that the system is like this, benefits should be for those who really need them, not for people choosing to work less hours so they don’t lose benefit money. I hope the system gets an overhaul soon to stop this.

I thought UC forced people to work more than 16 hours at nmw once their children were school age?
in any case she’ll still get UC on that full time salary

It's not the benefits that are the problem, it's low wages and the cost of living and childcare that's the problem. I dont claim benefits but I do work part time as I would lose money if I went full time.

A ‘leftie’ with no compassion for someone who is seeking refuge in the U.K.?
Someone who wants to survive?
I think you have a bit of Tory poking out.

Stop trying to parent her.

And it's not because I'm not "thinking long term" either, I cant afford the childcare I would need. As in literally can't afford it

That’s a different situation though. On UC people can get up to 80% of childcare costs covered.

@TabithaTittlemouse I think it sounds like she’s doing a lot for this refugee and their children? I don’t know why you’d criticise.

OP I’m with you, it’s good professional experience and it can mean promotion later down the track and even if she returns to Ukraine soon, it’s useful to have more professional experience.

Also why not have a bit of UK pension paid to you even if you return to Ukraine?

However, she’s an adult, probably traumatised, you’ve got to let her make her own decisions.

@TabithaTittlemouse how many Ukrainians are staying with you?

I think the OP has a lot of compassion. Wind your neck in.