To think it's better to work full time?

[Catslovepies]

I am hosting a guest from Ukraine- she's lovely and no trouble. I helped her get a job interview where I work for an admin job paying £21-£24k based on experience for 37 hours. At the moment she's working in a café for NMW topped up by universal credit. She works about 16 hours a week.

She has now said she's concerned as she will lose her universal credit so will be working a lot more hours for not much more money. I said I thought it would add up to more and that she would still receive child benefit (she has 2 children, 7 and 12). If she gets the job she could work 2-3 days from home and the rest from the office. On the days she works from the office I or DH would do the school drop-off for her and then her daughter would go to after school club for under £5.

So AIBU to think she would be better off working full time or is she right that she would be on approximately the same money as she is now? She has a good work ethic and I would have thought she'd rather work than take benefits she doesn't need but there should be a financial incentive to working surely? I have never been on benefits so don't understand it really but she says this is the reason many English people choose to work part time.

Thank you @Summergarden - I don't mind people being harsh in the slightest, I am finding it very educational!

OP universal credit doesn't work like this. There are different elements which are added together and there are no 'magic 16 hours' anymore (there wasn't really anyway because the amount you received depended on what you earned, it was simply the amount hours which made you eligible for working tax credit). For someone with children between 5-12 she is expected to work for or look for work for 25 hours a week. If they're not satisfied that she is, then she could be sanctioned.

If she gets her own place, her rent will be taken into account for UC, which will increase her entitlement.

So, at present she gets:
Amount for her £334 (if over 25)
Amount for DC1 £290
Amount for DC2 £244
= £878

This will then reduce according to her income, each £1 she earns reduces her UC by 55p but the first £573 she earns is not taken into account.

It may be with the new job that she does get a reduced amount but if she did get her own place she would get:
Amount for her £334
Amount for DC1 £290
Amount for DC2 £244
Amount for rent LHA amount if not in social housing
Amount for childcare
= £? But will be more than the previous total depending on rent (her work allowance, the amount they let you 'keep' before the reductions start, is lower if you have housing costs at £344 versus the £573 above).

It's a nightmare for most people to try and understand, I'm not even sure whether I've made an error above as I'm in a rush but in essence she needs to stop listening to bollocks about 16 hours and do the maths. There will be a 'sweet spot' but she needs to make sure she is satisfying their criteria in earning enough to stop them from sanctioning her too, there's a balance to be had.

@Notanevillamdlord thank you and that's my worry. While right now yes she and her family can stay with us indefinitely I can't 100% say that after another 6 months or years or who knows how long this will last that we will be able to house them. I feel like my guest is like a sister to me now but who can guarantee the future 100%

The thing is she doesn't know whether benefits with the potential housing supplement or a fulltime job would be better for her in terms of being able to rent. She wants to work but is scared to do so and mess up her benefits, basically. It seriously should not be this way. Getting a full time job with pension and opportunity for advancement should be a good thing, really!

I don't care how my work ethic is calibrated, if I fled a war with my children to another country then I'd adopt any means to be as present and available to them as I could.

I think she's confused. I work full time and get UC, I have no childcare costs as my child is old enough to be on his own after school. I'm better off working full time than part time.

It CAN work out that you are worse off working full time if you have childcare costs. But if there are none then it doesn't work out that way.

@FourTeaFallOut that is a good point but in my guest's case she says she does want to work full time.

@Tinselandtree thank you so much and @Beezknees yes it's very confusing. Is there anyone like at the citizens advice bureau or somewhere that an give her information? She says she will ask at the job centre but I'm worried about giving them any reason to sanction her as I don't think she is allowed to refuse the job if offered (but maybe she is due to the age of her children).

@Catslovepies you sound like a wonderful host and doing your utmost for your family. It is not "benefit bashing" to question the system; we all should have the right to question how the system works when we are unsure.

I wish your Ukrainian family all the best. It sounds like such a minefield: damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Thank you so much @Notanevillamdlord what a lovely post😍

Why though? Most people do work when they can. And she’s willing to work part time AND she’s had to flee a war! Worry more about the Billionaires fleeing the country, that’s where I’d start.

Is she having regular appointments at the job centre? If so she could ask them to do some speculative calculations. CAB can help if you can get an appointment. Our local council have a dedicated person for Ukrainian refugees and we've found them really helpful. Our visitor has a one year old, as well as an 8 & 10 year old, so doesn't need to work search but we've found the council to be (surprisingly) helpful. Might be worth a punt?

@Tinselandtree yes good ideas, she has now said she will speak to her job centre advisor to get more information- she will tell them she is considering applying for the job.

Agree

If I'd fled my war-torn country, I think I would feel pretty highly motivated to do school drop-offs and pick-ups myself, and spend as much time as possible with my traumatised children, rather than work twice as long for not much more money while my kids spent most of their waking hours with strangers in a foreign country.

Working in a café as she does currently involves doing a shift at the weekend and that's hard for her and her children - more so than missing a couple of school runs a week. And she does actually want to work full time as she thinks it would help her get a better job when she returns to Ukraine. She says she will see what they say at the job centre.

This!

Are you also hosting a refugee in your own home tabitha?

We struggle more being slightly over the benefits threshold haha feel a bit penalised.in our case no benefits = higher bills as well as not having much difference in it.

Our council tax was 40.. just not being on benefits it's gone to 180. Then with no other support benefits give (rent help we are in private so extortion) prescriptions, travel ect we are working more at a loss of at least 400 a month 😬 and I get family help for childcare so don't need to factor that in which other families do :(

When someone else is paying for it, of course you can.