To think buying a Bible is not the same as forcing religion on a child?

[Popcornn]

For context: I am not religious, however I have always been of the mindset that religion is a personal thing and that it should be up to an individual to decide what they believe.

DD recently started going to a CofE school. She has been learning about Jesus and the Nativity and has always been a very curious child. She has lots of questions Christianity that I didn't feel qualified to answer because I didn't learn these things due to a very anti-religious family. So when I saw a children's Bible in a bookshop the other day I decided to buy it. My intention being to read through it alone first and then if questions came up again we could look at it together and discuss it. My DP didn't like this because although he agrees that it should be DDs choice, he feels like it's forcing it on her and that these questions could've easily been answered at school.

I want DD to continue to be curious and to feel comfortable asking these questions at home. I'll always do what I can to help her learn about the things that she's interested in, even if it's not necessarily what I believe. But DP thinks I've crossed a line. AIBU?

OP, if she is curious let her read the bible, and let her learn the stories. The more she knows the more open minded she will be and many of her life decisions will be better informed. This is what we have done with our kids, even though we are not religious. We just talk about the bible, and other religious texts, along side other mythological beliefs, and other myths and legends from around the world. It expands their minds.

I really think it's counter-productive to treat it like some kind of forbidden book that could corrupt a child. It's not infectious. Just present it as a book of stories. A child is not likely to start believing it is true, anymore than they are likely to start believing that Rumpelstiltskin is a historical record. If you want them to be publicly respectful about the stories, you can tell the child that in the olden days in some parts of the world most people believed this was true and many people still do today. But normally the 'some people believe' thing comes with a heavy implication of 'but we don't'.

Yes nothing wrong with this at all

And agree it helps with context of history, literature as another poster said

YANBU because it isn't.

How does he cope with her being at a C of E school in general?

I think it’s fine. I’d continue an open dialogue about what you believe, what she believes, why some parts of religion can be problematic, why some parts of religion are helpful/beneficial etc. and let her come to her own conclusions.

To write off the Bible as 'fairy stories' is just as culturally ignorant and illiterate as the fundamentalist view that says the Bible is literally true.
The Old Testament includes myth, history, genealogy, songs and poems (Psalms), stories to illustrate a point (Ruth, Job), sex, prophecy, plus details of early legal and moral codes.
The New Testament includes myth, the history of the early church, stories to make a point (parables), letters from church leaders, a revised moral code from the OT, plus more prophecy in the book of Revelation.
The Bible is important both historically in terms of understanding early cultural development, and in terms of appreciating British (and European, and Middle Eastern...) history, social structures, and literature. It also has to be read in the context of the varying cultural and political situations in which is was written
So OP. Get your child a Bible, treat it as a set of ancient texts, and help your child appreciate it by explaining the context.

@bellac11

Depends whether they are orthodox or not. Most people have a 'religion' in name only in much the same way as people used to just plump for 'CofE' when asked their religion even if they were not actually religious.

I don't think you can possibly make a sweeping statement that "most" Muslims "have a religion in name only". I am sure that many do, but very many are perfectly serious about their religion and it seems problematic to offer them only Christian or Catholic schools to educate their children.

To the PP who said that Christian schools educate about other religions, absolutely- it is important to make the children aware of the competition! Joking apart, of course it teaches awareness and tolerance. But if you look at the website of the school it will likely have a lot of info about how Christian values underpin the school ethos, and Easter and Christmas will be discussed from a religious perspective using phrases like "we do this" and "Jesus was sent to save us" etc

Even if OP had no choice of school locally, the DH could have been on top of all this already and asked that his child be excluded form religious teaching and/or talked to her at home about how their family do not believe and that she should not not to take what the teachers said as gospel (pun intended). As it is, sounds like he's actually encouraging her to ask questions about religion at school, then getting weird about a bible being used as a discussion tool at home where more balanced views can be offered. It makes no sense.

The cognitive dissonance comes from the idea that a book is forcing religion and not being exposed to religion in a school set up for that exact purpose.

Whether there were other options in the area is a moot point. The fact remains a CoE education means extensive exposure to the bible in comparison to buying a child's version of bible stories.

@Namechangedatheist fairytales are culturally important too and can tell you a lot about history, culture etc.

I don't see how saying that two, clearly fictional stories have a place, but it's not one that should influence our own moral compass as they are seriously lacking is ignorant.

😂

No, it's not like fairy stories exactly, the key difference being that nobody ever did think fairy stories were literally true. It is mythology, though. I find all mythology fascinating and always have done from a young age. You can learn so much about people from the stories they create to explain the world around them and their place and role in it.

Having said that, you can also learn an awful lot about people from fairy tales and other folklore, which contain their own forms of poetic and cultural truths.

It's all literature. You won't find out anything real about gods or other supernatural beings but you will find out a great deal about humans.

Because much of the Old Testament records historical events (albeit naturally with a bias from the writers) and some can be cross referenced to for example Babylonian and Egyption records.

The laws recorded are not made up 'fairy stories' they are a record of a legal structure for a civilization 2500-3000 odd years ago.
Again, to write off the whole Bible as a work of fiction is ignorance.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

I don't dismiss the historical context and laws. I think a lot of those laws are pretty horrific, stoning victims of rape springs to mind.

But ultimately they are made up fantastical stories, like fairytales and myths and hence should be treated as such.

I mean, Bible is a great tool to teach about intolerance and patriarchal systems, so yeah in that sense not a fairytale.

Miracles, magic and virgin births belong firmly in the realm of fiction though.

If you bought her a book of maths questions so she could practice her maths at home, would that be 'forcing maths on her'?
If she was asking a lot of questions about Jane Austen and you bought her a book to answer those questions, would that be 'forcing Jane Austen on her'?

no, but neither of those things are a book full of myths pushed by some as truth

I reckon if you want to learn about ancient history, the Old Testament should not be your first port of call.....

If your child is asking (totally natural) you’re absolutely doing the right thing. The fact you’re doing it and you’re not religious makes it even more obvious that you’re doing the right thing here as it’s not just telling your child to follow your view.

There’s a fine line with children and religion, as obviously they are much more open to accepting things as truth if someone tells them something as a “fact”. As a parent, you can try to balance out any external views but ultimate it’s the child’s choice (which seems to be what you’ve said here anyway).

If it’s any consolation, my husband would initially probably think the same if I bought a bible for our DS because neither of us are religious. I bet when he thought about it he’d accept it, because although we’re not religious we don’t want our son to feel like religion is wrong.

I'd be more bothered about the daily indoctrination at a faith school 🤷‍♀️ I outright refuse to send my DD to the local CofE preschool because I don't want her forced into daily/twice daily prayer to something she doesn't have the ability to choose yet (we are not religious)

No need to buy the book, it's all online nowadays
skepticsannotatedbible.com/#gsc.tab=0

I'm also not religious and agree with those saying it is like having a book of greek/roman myths. These things are part of our culture. Christianity is so embedded in our history and literature that not knowing the stories from the bible would mean missing quite a lot of references/themes in literature, plays, films etc.

My Aunt, who is Christian, bought me a bible after I kept having to phone her to look things up for me! For History and English as well as R.E (which in our non-church school involved learning about a range of religions, not just Christianity). I still have it and still occasionally look things up in it.

Let me get this right - buying a book is “crossing a line” but enrolling your child into a school based on the religion of said book is not crossing any lines for your DP?

Why would that be? Is it a “good” school compared to the others in your area?

Your partner sounds stupid and a total hypocrite. What harm could having a children’s bible in the house do to a child who already attends a CofE school?

@YouScumbagYouMaggotHeresKevinTheCarrot

Broadly I suspect we agree. It's just the term fairytale that I object to.

I wouldn't refer to Beowulf as a fairytale, I wouldn't refer to the Quran as a fairytale. I wouldn't refer to Greek, Roman or Norse myths as fairytales. I wouldn't refer to the Tao Te Ching as a fairytale. I wouldn't refer to the Book of Mormon as a fairytale. I somehow doubt you would too?
Using the term is a deliberate attempt to downplay the significance of the Bible as a hugely important cultural artifact and by implication to criticise and infantilise Christian beliefs. If you don't use the same language for the Quran (for example), then perhaps you should look at your own prejudices.

There is controversy about whether the historical events are the historical events people think they are

In addition, dont be so quick to dismiss 'fairy stories', they too record the social mores, legal context and expectations and boundaries in society that the bible does, in the time they were written. Read the legends of Wales and Ireland for example. The brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson made plenty of references to their social and community environment and those stories were not for children, and they built on earlier folklore.

I think its you who needs to look at why you're so aggrieved at the word 'fairytale'. You seem so see it as an insult

Yes I would see the others as fairy tales and by fairy tales I also mean folklore/myth

If you live in a town with a lot of schools, this is a fair criticism. But in some places you go to the village school and if it's CoE there's not much you can do unless you want your child to have to commute miles and miles every day and have no friends living nearby.

I went to a CoE primary school and it's not because my parents were religious or hypocrites, it's because that was the school.

Faith schools should be illegal on principle in my opinion, but on the whole CoE primary schools are rather mild and wishy-washy with the religious aspect so if you want a secular school they can be a good second best.