Please help me with my misbehaving 4yo

[pandarific]

4yo son lost morning tv privileges last night for being extremely defiant and basically vile. Screaming, shouting, hitting, biting - the works. YES he was tired, but me and DH are pretty sick of it, and I lost my rag with him and shouted quite a lot.

This morning when he woke up he was sorry, said he was going to be a good boy today, agreed to have his listening ears on today, etc etc, said I was the best mummy in the world, only whined a bit about not having tv… all good until the time came to stop playing and go to nursery. five minute warning given, then two. Then when told he had to stop playing and get his clothes on the little shit behaviour started.

he ran off upstairs, started laughing down at us, hiding, refusing to come back down. So dh goes up and gets him, brings him back down, we ask him to put on clothes, I remind him of his agreement to be good today. It doesn’t have any effect. He refuses, starts shouting etc, DH and I forcibly dress him while he wails, then they head to nursery, ten minutes late. FFS.

it’s always when he has to stop doing something he likes and eg go to bed, go to nursery. I’ve already decided from now on as soon as he wakes up I’m getting him dressed immediately, but anything else? So so so sick of the bratty behaviour.

First, this is pretty standard (maybe not the biting but the rest). Kids test boundaries as they grow up. That’s hard wired into them and you can’t change it.
Second, is your routine completely consistent or does it feel like there’s a bunch of wiggle room and exceptions? if the latter, he’s got an incentive to push for it!
Third, how much tv does he have and when? I try with screen time to have a natural breakpoint (eg half an hour before dinner because they’ll want to eat) rather than something you remove. That always causes massive friction.
Fourth, honestly it’s just a phase. I know they can be maddening but it changes so fast. My youngest is now 5 and nothing like this any more (or, at least, only one day in 20).
Fifth, I didn’t want to leave the house this am either! It’s cold.

Going to call the health visitor today to ask if they have any parenting classes for handling defiant behaviour because we are being severely tested and I feel out of my/our depth. I feel like we are good parents who are very appreciative and encouraging of him and listen to him a lot, I don’t think we’re authoritarian or dismissive of him at all. But still, the bad behaviour is BAD.

Yes I have a three year old and this is pretty common in our house. What works for us when he is like that getting dressed is having a race with his brother so maybe can you set a timer and see how fast he can do it?

Don't dish out punishment that happen the next day. Too much hard work for you and him.

TBH don't stress too much. Just be practical like the dressing as soon as up is a good idea. Try to just make life easier. My kids are adults and one is ND, I had no consistency with them in terms of discipline. I felt guilty for lack of consistency at the time but actually i think it was the best thing. I just did whatever made our lives most pleasant. They are grown up now and all absolutely fine.

Have you spoken to his preschool/school? Ours did lots of 1:1's with our daughter around listening and making good choices as well as feelings and how to work through them. It's made such a huge difference. We bought lots of 'feelings' books and will read one or two before bed or just after 'a moment' and it helps her understand the reaction she gets, but also how to regulate how she reacts.

DD is 3.5 and having a race works for her as well when she's being particularly difficult. But generally we pick her clothes as soon as she gets up, then we take them downstairs (she prefers getting dressed downstairs). Then she knows that she can only have a bit of tv once she's ready for nursery. If she argues and won't get dressed, the time for tv naturally decreases because we have to leave for nursery by a set time.
I know some people prefer no tv in the morning but for us it works because we also have a 7 month old so having DD1 slightly occupied (and already dressed) while I dress and feed DD2 works better.

I'd relax a bit, sounds like common enough 4 year old behaviour tbh. He's a child, sure u do the normal withdrawal of TV etc .. But I'd wonder that you're describing itor him ? as 'the little shit' behaviour......

You’re shouting at him isn’t going to help.
I also don’t agree with calling him ‘vile’ and a ‘little shit’.

I can however sympathise with feeling completely overwhelmed and out of your depth with a young child. Their tantrums are frustrating, I know.

What I would remind you to think about, is if you’re having trouble regulating your emotions and getting so wound up you’re shouting, can you imagine how he feels? Sure, he’s pushing boundaries, but a lot of this pent up anger results in tantrums because he will be struggling with how to express his emotions. He gets frustrated and angry and then his parents shout at him, further reinforcing that to be heard you have to be loud.

Like others have said this pretty normal although frustrating behaviour. Children of no concept of time so they need something visual, an egg timer, choose a 10 min TV programme and Ince it's ended we get ready. You need to be consistent in your approach, no point getting stressed out. If he refuses to get dressed fine, leave him to it, get dressed earlier so your not stressing about leaving the house in 10 mins. We found reward charts helpful for promoting good behaviour 😁

@Pjsandhotchoc perhaps semantics, but I called the behaviour those things, not the child. I get very upset when my child hits and bites me, particularly as I do so much for him. I don’t deserve it. I would like for him to be better able to regulate his emotions for sure, but unless someone has something I haven’t tried, I’m at a bit of a loss.

I’ve given you an idea of something you haven’t tried. Stay calm. Model the behaviour you want to see from him.

Have you ever seen a toddler/child tantrum, the parent shouts at them and it stops? I doubt it, because it doesn’t work. Losing your temper doesn’t help.

Like I say, I do completely understand how frustrating it is. I’ve sometimes had to just walk out of the room for a minute to prevent myself from losing my rag.

Happens in our house on a morning.
Tbh I ignore it and he soon gets bored trying to test me.
Clothes are straight on after breakfast, if he doesn't want to get dressed then tough really I dress him.

You have to bite your tongue, walk away if you need to. But your giving him a reaction, poker face op!

Well tbh you're showing him that you don't regulate your emotions at the moment so I guess that's what he's picking up on... I think you're taking it v v personally, 'i don't deserve it' etc.... I'd concentrate on how he's feeling not how you are....

Maybe look at your responses rather than his behaviour. As in if you’re at the end of your tether and with no break from it, it’s very hard to be patient and fun. Do you get much of a break? Are you feeling more tired than usual?

Have you tried making things fun as in using timers to race getting dressed. Pretending to put pants on his or your own head and being silly when dressing him. That sort of thing?
Also, rather than focusing on punishments like lack of tv try using reward charts and really praising him when he does something good. Even if it’s something simple like brushing his teeth without complaint - tell him you’ve noticed he just brushed them and did an awesome job, point out how much nicer it is to just get on with things.

The time of year doesn’t help - every adult (parent or not) that I’ve spoken to is exhausted. It’s the same for children. There’s loads of bugs going round and he could be feeling genuinely run down and tired. If he’s anything like my son he never stops so never rests unless he’s in bed asleep!

And I agree no you don’t deserve the behaviour but equally he’s not doing these things on purpose, it’s very developmentally appropriate for his age and it will be a long time before he can regulate his emotions himself. All the time he’s watching how to do this by observing you and if you’re feeling frazzled and stressed this is how he will behave. Not just now, but also as an adult.

As you say, the thing that works here is up, washed, dressed, breakfast then their time is their own. They don’t get to watch tv/play until they are ready. Any other way just causes ear ache because they don’t want to stop the ‘fun stuff’ to do the boring stuff

Does he normally have TV before nursery? I would stop that.
You need to get the basics right, healthy food, exercise (at this age they need at least 3 a day), enough sleep and not too much TV for us that’s 30 mins a day. Routines need to be consistent and obvious - make him a visual time table.

The book how to talk so little children listen is really useful.

How do you respond when he hits and bites? That would be the behaviour I would concentrate on. The rest seems pretty normal, and sounds as though he is treating it as a bit of a game, rather than being naughty.

Biting/hitting needs an instant response, not a punishment the next day (that rarely works for a child that young - they can't see the connection between the punishment and the crime over such a long period).

OP, you know your child best, but as a parent who has an older child that behaved like this at that age, in hindsight his behaviour was trying to tell me something, that he wasn’t ok, and this was the only way he was able to do it. There’s always a reason for behaviour, it’s very rare children are absolutely naughty and awful for no reason at all.
From what you’ve put and that it’s around going to nursery and transitioning from one place/activity to another, I’d make a bet it’s anxiety.
Hurting you is never acceptable but if it is anxiety a completely different approach is needed. Getting cross and not acknowledging or reassuring his feelings is going to make it a million times worse and it becomes a vicious circle.

We have a very rigid morning routine that he knows if he gets through quickly he gets extra time for play when it's done. Breakfast, toilet, teeth, dressed. If he's on the ball that means he gets a good chunk of play before the alarm goes off for nursery (I found having an actual alarm rather than me just telling him worked better), if he doesn't then I don't get stressed about being late and stay calm as there's a lot of time built in for him to argue every single step. It's when I try to rush him it all goes wrong, because he does pick up on my stress and slows right down, so getting up early and leaving a ridiculous amount of time for basic tasks works better for all of us.

And I agree that punishments that happen the next day don't really work.

At his age he will have little sense of time and even less impulse control.

getting into a battle about you promised to be good and you aren’t being is pointless.

1-have a clear structure to the day so he learns what to expect next.
2- when things are not going well; stop! Think about what you need to happen (what’s the most important task? Go to that don’t dwell on stuff you can leave) and how to make that happen. Losing your cool and shouting probably is going to make it worse so try not to. Walk away for a few minutes instead.
3- prep ahead. Get clothes, bags etc ready the night before so you have the minimum to do at any one time. That will lessen how overwhelmed you feel.
4- we do not negotiate with terrorists! Be clear about what you expect. Do not get in to ‘if you do x I’ll give you y’ (DP I’m looking at you!). Doing x is not negotiable.
5- bribery and distraction are useful. Oh look DS let’s read your favourite book (dress him whilst reading).

my now 4 year old can be tricky but she generally behaves way better for me than her dad. Dad has zero structure, tries to negotiate, gives into screams and gets in a tizz as he doesn’t plan.
with me DD knows she will get ‘screams get nothing’ and that doing the routine often results in play time/treats.

im not perfect. I went through a horrible period of being totally overwealmed when her brother was born and ended up screaming at poor DD more than once . I had to look really hard at what I was doing and change my approach to change hers.

your DC isn’t a brat. They need you to change your behaviour so they can manage theirs x

We have a very strict morning routine as my ds really struggled with getting ready in the morning when he was younger. Dressed / breakfast / coats and shoes on. Then the TV goes on and we turn it off and leave at the same point each day. I build in a bit of extra time for faffing which means I am not getting stressed about being late (because that makes thing worse).

No tv, no toys no nothing until he is up, washed, dressed, eaten breakfast, teeth and shoes on. Then if there is any time left over he can use it to do something (chances are there won’t be time).

@Treesuphooray “ your DC isn’t a brat. They need you to change your behaviour so they can manage theirs “

This, OP, is the crux of it.

Loving all the posts saying obviously it’s my fault he’s being a nightmare as obviously I’m modelling a lack of emotional regulation. Yup, that’s me, the bad parent going around wailing and screaming, not modelling good behaviour at all.

@DinosWillGetYou i think it’s probably anxiety too. How is your child now? (Please say great in school, lovely at home…😅) When you say ‘a totally different approach is needed’ what approach do you mean? He needs to be able to manage his emotions better and I don’t really know how to help him do that at the moment.

The practical tips are fantastic, thank you. I am definitely keeping no tv in the mornings. And yes he’s more of a mare when has had too much screen time so yes maybe no more than an hour in the evening.

I am happy to change my behaviour, but I am asking for help because my 4yo has been incredibly badly behaved recently and I approaching the end of my tether with dealing with constant battles/wailing/defiance. I am fine handling a normal/regular level of misbehaviour, but this is more extended and extreme than that.