Please help me with my misbehaving 4yo

[pandarific]

4yo son lost morning tv privileges last night for being extremely defiant and basically vile. Screaming, shouting, hitting, biting - the works. YES he was tired, but me and DH are pretty sick of it, and I lost my rag with him and shouted quite a lot.

This morning when he woke up he was sorry, said he was going to be a good boy today, agreed to have his listening ears on today, etc etc, said I was the best mummy in the world, only whined a bit about not having tv… all good until the time came to stop playing and go to nursery. five minute warning given, then two. Then when told he had to stop playing and get his clothes on the little shit behaviour started.

he ran off upstairs, started laughing down at us, hiding, refusing to come back down. So dh goes up and gets him, brings him back down, we ask him to put on clothes, I remind him of his agreement to be good today. It doesn’t have any effect. He refuses, starts shouting etc, DH and I forcibly dress him while he wails, then they head to nursery, ten minutes late. FFS.

it’s always when he has to stop doing something he likes and eg go to bed, go to nursery. I’ve already decided from now on as soon as he wakes up I’m getting him dressed immediately, but anything else? So so so sick of the bratty behaviour.

I had a feeling you were going to take our responses the wrong way, @pandarific .

No one said you’re a bad parent going around wailing and screaming. But, you said yourself in your first post that you shouted quite a lot and had to forcibly dress him while he wailed. It doesn’t sound like fun for either of you. He isn’t enjoying behaving this way.

The main conclusion from the replies is not that you’re a bad parent, at all. Just that if you are able to respond to your child’s behaviour in a calmer way, it will undoubtedly help.

The problem is that there is no quick fix. I don’t know if you were expecting a magic solution and the suggestion that you may need to alter your own behaviour has hurt your feelings. But it honestly is true, and that’s not a personal attack.

Sounds tricky. Try your best not to get wound up- it escalates the situation.
as per other suggestions, have clothes laid out and do everything in same order each day.
You could also get a visible timer- a sand countdown or whatever so that he can visually see how long 2 mins is- kids have no real concept of this.
Also, when issuing consequences around bad behaviour, it’s your boundaries you’re explaining, not his. So say “if you don’t put your shoes on, then I’ll take x away”. Don’t do “put your shoes on or you’re going to time out” Then follow through. You have control of the situation, not him.

So also say, “would you like to put the cars or the blocks away?” Or “put your jacket or shoes on first?”. He’s testing control boundaries. You can give him some with aforementioned questions. It might not always work, but stick to it. And walk away if you need to.

The anxiety is much better tbh OP, still
blips but I think when I realised it was anxiety, which I certainly didn’t straightaway, and changed how I reacted that was the game changer.
I guess just approach it as calmly as you can (while internal screaming in frustration), reassurance, acknowledging his feelings…..‘I hear you are feeling worried, it’s ok to be anxious’ or whatever you feel appropriate……having a set routine everyday so he knows what to expect and what is expected of him. Quietly and calmly firm when needed. It’s hard keeping a poker face when you’re being hit and bitten I know, it gets easier though!
wish you lots of luck

I don’t expect a magic solution. I would like a better behaved child, because I’m not much enjoying spending time with the one I’ve got right now and I am a bit terrified he won’t grow out of it and will become like the personality disordered sister I am NC with. I have seen bad behaviour escalate, go extremely wrong and break up my family of origin so I am 1000% invested in changing things and nipping this dysregulated hitting/biting/screeching in the bud.

Quite desperate for a break from it all actually and would pay £££ for someone else to just take over for a while, but that’s not happening so guess I’ll just ask for a stronger antidepressant and try to get to sleep earlier.

Again, all about you. I have tried to sympathise OP, but you seem insistent that your child is the problem, despite many posters suggesting the contrary.

You’ve not taken on board any recommendations that your responses to your child’s behaviour could be better managed.

You say you’re not enjoying spending time with your badly behaved child, as if it’s their fault. I bet they’re not overjoyed to be spending their time being shouted at by parents.

You need to fix your own behaviour and then maybe you’ll get the “better behaved child” you so wish for.

Sorry for the self pity just there, I am tired and overwhelmed and SAD. DH just texted me to tell me he had to carry DS halfway to nursery this AM. It has been a few weeks of this now and we are both over it.

Thank you @DinosWillGetYou , I know that’s what works, you’re right. I think I’ve been trying to be stricter as he’s been worse recently, but maybe that’s backfired a bit and resulted in power struggles.

ill have another read of this thread later and design a new morning routine and try to implement that.

anyone got any good sticker / visual charts? I’ve tried googling for them and there is a lot of choice - a bit too much really.

I get very upset when my child hits and bites me, particularly as I do so much for him

He's 4! He won't care or realise how much you're doing for him at this age

As others have said, consequences for bad behaviour need to be immediate at this age so a TV ban this morning for something that happened yesterday isn't any good.

Have you tried reward charts. I don't know if they're old hat this days but they definitely used to work with mine (they're lovely teens these days but my younger one especially was a nightmare at that age).

I know it's draining but you're the adult and need to manage your expectations of him as a 4 year old. Reading your last post, do you think the worry about him being like your sister could be escalating your reaction to it?

@pandarific i would also say some children are much much harder than others. Obviously I don’t know if it’s the case with yours but I get a bit sick of reading the same advice over and over and it not working. Some kids are just harder. I don’t know why people are reluctant to admit this when giving out advice. Maybe it’s the MN race to the bottom of never acknowledging some people have it worse/ tougher, but it’s stupid to have this idea that “all kids are hard in their own way and they all have phases = all kids equally as hard”.

some children just are more difficult, I have no advice, what I mean by that is sometimes acknowledging that helps. I had a really really difficult newborn and I wanted to scream at people who would say “oh just pop her in the sling”. It’s like FUCK OFF IVE TRIED THE FUCKING SLING.

OP as the mum of teenagers I feel the need to warn you that if you’re waiting for children to treat you in the way you think that you deserve and to be well behaved in appreciation of your efforts, you’ll be waiting a very long time and have a lot of disappointments. Parenting is in the large part rising above their behaviour to do the right thing by them, loving them even when they act in an unloving way to you, and most of all keeping your cool when they are losing theirs. None of us do it perfectly all the time, but you need to have the intention and commitment. When it gets out of hand you need to own the blame as an adult, not put it on them as a child.

It may well be that your child needs some extra support with their behaviour but I honestly believe that the first step is to look to your behaviour, language and attitudes and determine if you are creating the right environment for him to do his best.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush definitely. I find that thought terrifying. I try not to think of it but I have been through hell in my upbringing with her and it is very scary to be seeing even the ghost of that behaviour from my child.

he is lovely and clever and has a good heart though, so will probably never happen.

we've not used reward charts but would like to - any recommendations? I think it could be a really good shout.

I think the behaviour you're describing sounds like pretty typical 4 year old behaviour except for the biting. I have a 4 year old and it's hard. Their little brains are still developing and they aren't always able to regulate their emotions. I know it's hard to stay calm but doing that will model regulating emotions. We calmly remind ours of what we want, redirect and if he doesn't get dressed we just dress him. There are some really great accounts on instagram that talk about brain development that might help.

You don't deserve it? That's an odd way of viewing it. Almost like he is expected to treat you in a certain way without any negotiation? He's 4. He didn't choose to be conceived and he doesn't owe you anything for the privilege of birthing him. You honestly will struggle to find many 4 year olds who don't play up and push boundaries like this.

‘When it gets out of hand you need to own the blame as an adult, not put it on them as a child.’
I take your point on not taking bad behaviour personally, modelling good choices and keeping calm, however… I don’t think it’s somehow my fault when my child hits and bites me? How could my parenting possibly be so shit as to cause that? It’s really not! It’s perfectly normal, warm, loving well-boundaried parenting and though we can sure make some changes (below) I don’t think we should take the blame for what he does in a dysregulated rage.

‘It may well be that your child needs some extra support with their behaviour but I honestly believe that the first step is to look to your behaviour, language and attitudes and determine if you are creating the right environment for him to do his best’

I think we can make some changes, but nothing wild tbh.

• less screen time - and none in the am
• getting dressed immediately
• Reward charts / visual ‘it’s time for this now’ charts
• Us: not shouting, remaining calm, clear expectations

You still haven't said what you do when he kicks/bites. I would concentrate on that in the first place.

You need to stay calm, but be firm. Tell him no, that it's not nice to hurt people and give him a chance to calm down. I found the 'naughty' step a good way of dealing with this, although we didn't call it the naughty step. When Ds got so overheated that he resorted to hitting or screaming, I sat him on the bottom stair, got down to his level, explained that it was unacceptable, and told him he needed to sit there until he calmed down. I found the minute-per-year of age worked well. I stayed with him during the time, but didn't interact. At the end we had a nice cuddle, and I encouraged him to apologise. But you have to do this every time.

Also concentrate on praising every bit of good behaviour - whether it be putting on an item of clothing, sitting nicely to eat, picking up a toy, just being happy and smiley etc - comment on it positively.

@JoyBeorge do you think it’s that odd? I was hit a lot as a child and teen and I hate violence/hitting now. I don’t want it in my family at all. I suppose I thought when I had my own family I wouldn’t let it happen, but here it is, happening anyway, and I’m just a bit raw about it. Maybe that’s what I mean by I feel like I don’t deserve it - I work really hard to be a good and loving parent and I don’t want to be hit/bitten. I just want us to love each other and get on.

Google Positive Parenting - there are free courses and info online and it is proven to work. Even the UN approves it. Basically you use positive reinforcement. Using negative reinforcement damages the relationship you have with your kids and makes all of you angry and depressed.

for us, no tv/iPad/fun stuff in the morning unless you’re dressed and had breakfast has been a game changer
it didn’t take lot to get in the habit - it’s more a reward for being ready early
also at that age 10 mins is just something parents say - one more video or an egg timer is easier to understand

Have you had any counselling about your own childhood? You do seem to be trying to relate fairly normal 4 year old behaviour to your abuse.

Your DS isn't hitting/biting to punish you, he is doing it because he has no other way to communicate or express his feelings.

Not much help besides, it’ll pass. My son has just had this phase and it lasted a couple months, I was at my wits end and he made me cry a few times. It’s stopped now, out of nowhere. Just as random as when it started!

It sounds tough for all of you. One thing that might help - and won't do any harm to try - is to pick a calm, quiet moment and ask him why he finds getting ready in the morning hard. Not 'why are you hitting mummy' because that just triggers defensiveness. Just 'I've noticed it was hard for you to get dressed this morning - do you know why it was hard?'

Just to add, my son is the same age. He turned 4 a week ago.

@SusiePevensie thank you! I’ve done this with him, and he has told me that he doesn’t like it when we physically put his clothes on him, so then he freaks out. I’ve explained that we only ever have to do that, or pick him up, is when he is refusing to do it himself, after we’ve asked him in multiple times, he’s run away, refused, and we have to go to nursery/work/leave the place he doesn’t want to leave.

I’ve obviously explained that if he just gets dressed himself/leaves the party/whatever nicely with us then we don’t need to do that, but it’s probably got into a bit of a vicious cycle now and become a big deal/power struggle. Not really sure how to resolve that but awaiting callback from the HV, maybe they’ll have some ideas. I do lots of the suggestions here, but we still have this issue and have had it since he was very small - I thought he’d got over it recently as he was being much much better but now he seems to have gone right back to the ‘no!’ stage.

@PixellatedPixie thanks for the suggestion - there’s a PP free course in January in our city, I’ll show dh.

@Seeline i did have some last year but it wasn’t very effective and very expensive. Your question has reminded me that I was going to use the free service my work offer. It’s only temporary, but it’s better than nothing.

The other thing to add as well is that maybe you’re feeling guilty for upsetting him by making him get dressed or whatever? I say this as a people pleaser who’s bothered about what people think of me way too much! It definitely impacts on my parenting.
It boils down to - you have to get him dressed / he has to dress himself and he doesn’t get a choice in that and it’s perfectly okay for him to be upset about it. What’s not okay is the biting and hitting. Have you tried validating how he’s feeling? “Mummy’s going to dress you now… I know you’re upset because you don’t really want to get dressed and that’s okay to feel upset…. Do you want to put your trousers on or shall mummy do it for you?…. “ if he continues being upset just keep repeating in a calm voice. It won’t work overnight and isn’t a quick fix that you’d probably like but over time you’ll be teaching him how he’s feeling and developing his emotional intelligence. You’re the parent and you set the boundaries but it’s perfectly fine for him to not like them.

On one occasion my son (aged 4) wouldn’t get dressed so I took him out in his shorts and no top (it was raining). I just calmly said the above then said okay if you don’t want to get dressed that’s fine, let’s go. He was sat in the car asking for his clothes. I just said but you didn’t want to get dressed? Next time shall we do it together. It worked for a while and he didn’t put up a fight for a good while when I was dressing him!

I also echo the other post about some kids being genuinely harder work than others. He sounds strong willed and determined and whilst it’s a pain when they’re little it’s a good characteristic to have as an adult.

Hang in there - you’re doing your best, learning as you go and sometimes things just build up inside us and feel so overwhelmingly difficult that our patience is massively tested.