Please help me with my misbehaving 4yo

[pandarific]

4yo son lost morning tv privileges last night for being extremely defiant and basically vile. Screaming, shouting, hitting, biting - the works. YES he was tired, but me and DH are pretty sick of it, and I lost my rag with him and shouted quite a lot.

This morning when he woke up he was sorry, said he was going to be a good boy today, agreed to have his listening ears on today, etc etc, said I was the best mummy in the world, only whined a bit about not having tv… all good until the time came to stop playing and go to nursery. five minute warning given, then two. Then when told he had to stop playing and get his clothes on the little shit behaviour started.

he ran off upstairs, started laughing down at us, hiding, refusing to come back down. So dh goes up and gets him, brings him back down, we ask him to put on clothes, I remind him of his agreement to be good today. It doesn’t have any effect. He refuses, starts shouting etc, DH and I forcibly dress him while he wails, then they head to nursery, ten minutes late. FFS.

it’s always when he has to stop doing something he likes and eg go to bed, go to nursery. I’ve already decided from now on as soon as he wakes up I’m getting him dressed immediately, but anything else? So so so sick of the bratty behaviour.

Actually, while I’m here, here is another thing I am worried about and would like some help with:

DS lies all the time/blames other people for his actions. From ‘Mummy said I could’ to ‘she just fell over’ when no, he pushed her, to ‘T did it’ (T being his little friend who is just standing there). He doesn’t ever admit being in the wrong, and when hes in these moods and says sorry, it’s a sing song ‘sorreee’ (not sorry). He’s even told me ‘I lie all the time 🤨’ when I’ve been telling him it’s wrong, and then given me this ‘so what’ sort of look.

people have mentioned books about feelings/behaviour - is there a good book about honesty I can read to him (obvs also the boy who cried wolf)?

I think if it's an option for you, getting some help for this would be really good. Of course noone wants to be hit, but it seems like it would be especially triggering for you given your past. And from that you're projecting things onto your child that don't exist.

Also, I'd try and stop labelling things good or bad. It seems like you might be in a 'badness' spiral with him. Noone wants to feel like they're bad inside, and feeling like you failed at being good is also horrible. Ourmamavillage and DrBecky are good Instagram resources.

Dressing first thing is also a good idea and cut down morning battles for us.

Above all, you're not a bad mum and he isn't a bad child.

Hi OP. I had similar issues with my DD when she was 4, and had stared reception, particularly in the run-up to Christmas. Looking back, I can see that she was struggling at school, and that I did not handle it very well. At that point DH had a long commute so was out of the house before the flash points of getting dressed and going out.

A couple of things that helped were:

• Using ‘now and then’ statements like ‘now we’re going to have breakfast, then we’ll get dressed’ - I’d repeat this through the morning routine, so she would know what we were doing now and next.
• Using a timer for playing/ watching TV, or being very clear about only watching one episode, then breakfast.
• Saying things like ‘Time for breakfast’ rather than ‘You need to come and have breakfast’ - strangely, making it slightly impersonal helped!

We then went into lockdown and school closures, so things were even more disrupted 😞 It got better as she got older. You have my sympathy - I remember despairing about what had happened to my previously easy-going girl and what had I done wrong. I did need to handle things differently, and that was hard to accept, but we got through it.

I believe I read somewhere that some children have more trouble switching between activities than most. This is why Eg at the play park parents give the 5 minute warning so the child knows there will be a transition soon Eg leaving and getting in the car. But as I say some children find this harder than others.

Can you approach this in a proactive way. Know what the warning signs are and step in just before. I appreciate this is a very busy time and is hard to watch for every little sign.

Bribery and distraction were my weapons of choice when my Dd was young. I also found things much easier in the mornings when I stopped TV.

A few off the cuff suggestions, like the race to get dressed, put on a favourite piece of music, his choice and dress to that. Turn things into a competition, if no siblings then with you and dh. I also changed by DDs breakfast to toast instead of cereal, so less of a sugar rush. Perhaps a reward (I know) for being dressed and on the doorstep and ready to go. Perhaps you could rotate his toys, so the reward is something he hasn’t seen for a while.

I’m assuming you walk to nursery, as you say Dh carried him. Can he/you play I spy/yellow car/not step on the lines etc/sing songs. I suppose I’m thinking that each time there’s a transition point, there is something good or fun associated with the next step to help him move forward.

I know this sounds very intensive and perhaps seems as if it is rewarding bad behaviour, but every little thing that works will make your life easier in the long run.

I would also suggest a good book on child development and behaviour. There will be certain developmental changes in a child, not always dependent on age. This might help you understand what’s normal challenging behaviour and what’s not.

Theres also something called defiance/oppositional behaviour, some of which is normal, but does need techniques if it’s exceptionally bad.

Best of luck.

A tip that worked surprisingly well on my willful little shit 😆 was heavy OTT praise when they are NOT playing up.
So, rather than wait until it kicks off and reacting to THAT, go out of your way to notice any quiet/easy moments and say unprompted for instance "hey X, you have been SUCH a good boy today sitting quietly for mummy! Come to the kitchen and let's get you a treat".

The idea is they learn they get far more out of you by being good. Doesn't solve things overnight and I still disciplined the naughty behavior, but the positive reinforcement in the good moments, however minor, definitely had an impact and made them more eager to please.

I wasn't surprised when in later posts you mentioned your sister as I could tell your OP was driven by fear.

Fear is what drives our anger. You're scared he'll turn out "bad". And that's turning into anger for you towards him, and feeling like you can't cope with his behaviours.

Once you truly recognise it's your fear driving your response it will help you move past that and be calmer and get out of battle mode you vs him.

You have some great ideas on how to change things in the morning. You don't need big radical changes to make a difference.

How often do you have fun and play with your son? Like rough and tumble, chase, silly games, goofing around, him being in charge - not doing activities?

You are so right. They are all so different. My first son was never naughty, never hit, kicked, bit or snatched. Never had a tantrum. Honestly. My second one wakes up with violence on his mind 😂🙈

I have EUPD. It is caused by nature and nurture. So differences in the brain and being invalidated as a child.
So your DC is trying to communicate with you in the only way he knows how and you are responding angrily leaving him feeling invalidated and even more angry. That's what I would work on if I were you.

@UndertheCedartree I don’t always respond angrily, I am actually quite patient. At the very very end of my rope (meaning prolonged misbehaviour, violence) I might shout, but I am posting here for help because I want to help my child regulate their emotions better and thus behave better so we don’t get into that situation so much. I’m doing my best on my own ‘stuff’ - awaiting a call from the HV to see if there’s a parenting course we can go on for strategies for very strong willed children, going to access the free counselling via work).

if you don’t mind me asking, what kinds of invalidation do you think contributed to your EUPD? My mum believes my sister has NPD which is obviously a different thing, but I will never parent like she did (70s style shouting and smacking plus mockery, yay! 😬) though I don’t quite know what you mean by invalidation.

I’ve read ‘The book you wish your parents had read’ and try to follow that, ask questions about how he’s feeling, I don’t dismiss his upset as ‘silly’ and I do the whole ‘I can see you’re upset about x’ but it doesn’t really have much effect as far as I can tell. I can’t allow him to eg push his sister, run around shouting when we’re all sitting down to lunch, etc. I suppose I’m like - where is the line?

Is he happy at nursery? Is it worth maybe having a chat with them to see how they think he's getting on? Have there been any changes at home or nursery recently? I also think this sounds like anxiety, maybe combined with difficulty with transitions and impulse control difficulties.

I think naming feelings can be really helpful. Like "I wonder if you're feeling .... ". This helps them to learn their own feelings and be able to express them better in the future.

Can you leave earlier for nursery or is it a school one where you have to wait for it to open? My DD has always struggled with transitions. If she’d got the chance to start playing or doing something she wanted then we would have had drama every morning (probably still would now tbh!) So our routine was very much up, get ready, get out. No time for her to start pissing about.

What a brilliant problem! I love this because you can really delve down into the nitty gritty and have a good outcome...

I have some questions for you:

1. What is reinforcing the behaviour? You say that it is often a battle and you all get into a bit of a fight over it. I am wondering whether the drama is actually giving him something? You may see punishment but he may see a reward, even if it seems bad. Attention is attention, even if it is "bad" attention.

2. Why do you wait to punish the next day? If you punish him the next day he will not make the connection between the behaviour and the punishment. You must punish for poor behaviour the moment it occurs so he can make a link between doing X and getting Y response. Any longer than an hour and there is no point.

3. Are you assuming he makes the link between behaviour and consequence? Punishment must occur only for as long as they behaviour occurs. If he can't make the link between action and consequence (even if you explain, don't assume he "gets" it, most human beings don't even if they are told) then he will get resentful at the punishment.

4. What is the function of the behaviour? What is he getting from engaging in it? EVERY behaviour is caused, the key is to figure out what it is designed to do. People don’t do something unless it works. And what he is doing is working at the moment!

Recommendations:

Find out what he gets from the behaviour and give it to him somewhere else so he doesn’t have to do it. The key here is to TEACH HIM to get what he wants in a way that is effective and helpful rather than demonic! If you don't he will just keep doing what he does to get what he needs. For example, teach him how to communicate effectively so he can get what he wants AND you can get him into nursery.

Act like a scientist! Figure out what happens just before the behaviour and what makes the behaviour more likely. It may be that he does not want to stop doing what he is doing, or it may be a coincidence. Do not assume.

Think about whether something happens at nursery in the morning that he doesn’t like. It may be that it is less about wanting to do what he wants and more a way of avoiding something at nursery. For example, I know a child who will actively behave poorly in the morning and we found it was because she did not want to stand up and sing in assembly. Making herself late meant she did not have to sing in front of others.

I also suspect that your attitude is leaking out of your every pore and he will know this. Kids are not stupid in this sense. They spot adult distress from 1000 miles away; they are like bloodhounds for misery.

You use the term “little shit” and “bratty” – do you think he doesn’t know that’s what you think of him? Do you maybe even say derogatory things when you are shouting? He needs you to contain his emotional state – he is 4. If you appear out of control he will feel – as a by-product – out of control. I’ve worked in environments where very dangerous people could have taken over and caused serious harm to us but they didn’t. Why? Because they needed to know that someone had control. And that was adults!

That said, give yourself a break! Your child does what he does to get what he needs (or wants). We all do this – even adults. This is a normal human experience and one that can, if dealt with appropriately, be changed. I wonder whether he is shaping you to do (or not do) things?

Good luck! You can do this!

@UnbeatenMum i went back full time (from 4 days) recently, so that. He cries and moans about going to nursery in the morning a lot, I’ve spoken to them and they were surprised, says he’s fine while he’s there. So not much of an answer. I’ll follow up with a written message.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you always respond angrily. I just meant to work on the times when you do. I wasn't meaning to be judgemental.

So what I mean by invalidation is for example being called a 'drama queen' when I was upset and struggling to deal with my emotions. Being smacked and shouted at for misbehaviour when I desperately needed some understanding. My experience of childhood was one of being labelled 'naughty', feeling misunderstood and left struggling on my own. I mean that style of parenting isn't one I'd ever do myself either, but I do believe my parents did try their best but I was a child with additional needs and they had no idea how to meet them.

Personally, I have never punished my children. It just doesn't sit right with me. I remember how awful and alone I felt being punished all the time. This has worked well and my children at 15 and 10 are very well behaved (most of the time!). 'Time in' has worked well, this involves removing the child from the situation but you stay with them and help them to tolerate their distress.

My best resources for you OP.

Don't take it personally. He's struggling and so are you, but he's having a hard time not trying to give you a hard time.

The book How to Talk so Little Kids will Listen is the most accessible parenting book I've read (and I've read lots). It has great suggestions for morning routines.

This article is the best one I've seen on handling your own anger (and yes I shout at my kids when at the end of my tether too, but I am trying to work on that) www.ahaparenting.com/read/handling-anger
The ahaparenting website in general is fantastic for targeted resources for your child's age group e.g. a game plan which includes advice on discipline www.ahaparenting.com/guide/preschoolers and specific articles, I Google the website name and my query to get targeted results like this one www.ahaparenting.com/read/child-hits-parent