To think our economy infantilises young people

[HurryupwiththeteA]

I’ve got a DS who’s 18 and I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I love history and learning about different time periods and when I think what some of the 18-25 year olds used to have vs now it’s stunning. Henry VIII became king when he was 18. Slightly more realistically, up until not so many years ago young people were able to move out, get jobs that actually pay money you can live on, get married, have children, etc. I know some can especially closer to 25 but for many that’s simply not a reality.

Today minimum wage jobs (which are absolutely necessary and often quite skilled) are simply not enough to live on meaning that for many they feel their only option is university.

The student loan system requires you to be dependent on your parents (especially if they earn more) as the maintenance grant simply will not cover living expenses and (back to my last point) they’re only option is minimum wage will does not pay.

After graduating in most areas home ownership is not realistic given the exorbitant cost. This leaves them with the option of living at home for many years to try and save up (or rent and most likely never be able to afford a house deposit).

Because they don’t have their own place, relationships are often either causal hookups or quite short lived. This means that marriage or children if usually out of the question until they are much older.

Many other things such as being treated like they’re not really adults by older people, being marketed crap they don’t need keeping them in the rat race, calls to raise the age to smoke, so many other things.

Sadly I think the answers to these problems just aren’t going to happen. Major house building, distressing the importance of degrees for jobs that simply don’t need them, making the minimum wage enough to actually live on, controls on rent, stopping interest on student loans and raising the repayment threshold. None of these will ever happen, for political reasons, but frankly they should.

Aibu to think that young adults (18-25) are pretty infantilised today. It seems like 25 is the new 18 and until your mid 20s now society often still sees you as a child. Furthermore, Aibu to think this

I find the Armish documentaries interesting. Their young people quite often seem a lot more mature and closer to what I would expect young people to be like (instead I'm just raising my eyebrows at nearly all of them all these days), minus the religion etc. I just mean mentality when it comes to work, attitudes etc.
For them school ends in what would be our Year 9 to quite a high standard, higher than standard American schools at 18. Are we doing young people any favours with a slower paced education? Does that play a part?
Just some ramblings anyway.

"I disagree with this; I think the OP is right in that women who end up going to university don’t have a choice but to have their children later due to delay saving a house deposit, having more outgoings with student loan, often starting on a low wage after 3/4 years at uni so can’t afford to save / move out for a while.
I don’t think it’s a choice at all. It’s a circumstance."

Educated women have been having children later than less educated ones since before uni fees so I don't think it's got anything to do with student loan.
It's also a very middle class belief that you must own a house to have children. It's obviously not true.

I think one of the main reasons women are having children later is that there is no longer any social pressure to marry so men, who do not have an expiry date on their reproduction, have no incentive to settle down early. Even if a woman wants to marry earlier, she will have a hard time finding a man willing to commit.

I sort of agree with you but also we know the brain doesn't finish growing until about 25

That's actually been covered quite a bit on this thread and is a bit of a misnomer/oversimplification. And largely irrelevant anyway.
Also the brain changes throughout the entire course of your life. It doesn't hit "finish" and never change again at 25.

I fully agree. They may superficially look good, but living in them is pretty dismal, especially the poor sods who were stuck in them day and night during the covid years when Unis weren't doing face to face teaching and everything was online, many couldn't even escape to the library (as they were also closed for large amounts of time!).

"Nowadays companies don’t seem to want to train people while employed. Which is why the govt subsidises apprenticeships."

Some of them are not really apprenticeships though. They are low skilled jobs that don't require an apprenticeship. When I was young, the YTS scheme did the same thing, incentivised employers to take on young people and massaged the youth unemployment figures.

"They may superficially look good, but living in them is pretty dismal"

This one looked really awful.
Depends a lot on when they were built/renovated, whether uni owned or private I suppose.

latetothefisting · Yesterday 12:13
MrsSkylerWhite · Yesterday 11:19
I think the average age amongst common people was about 35 in the 16th century.

People had to grow up fast.
what do you mean by "average age"? Do you mean life expectancy? If so that's only because of the infant mortality rate, throughout most of history, if children survived to adulthood they didn't die much earlier on average than we do.

"From 1200 to 1745, 21-year-olds would reach an average age of anywhere between 62 and 70 years." (exeptions being during periods like the black death)

Why do people regurgitate half remembered facts without taking a second to google them to check they are right?”

well that’s me told 🤣

im not an historian, you obviously are. The last person I heard regurgitating that half remembered fact was a TV historian, can’t remember her name, Dr. or Professor someone. Spanish name, black hair, very pale skin and bright red lipstick.
tbh, I didn’t feel the need to second guess her by googling. But hey, you know best 😃

Does anyone care about life expectancy in the 1200s?

Really? when generalising about kids and young adults in 2022.

BeyondMyWits · Today 08:22
Does anyone care about life expectancy in the 1200s?

Really? when generalising about kids and young adults in 2022.“

Fair point 😁

Our youngest, 19, is studying for his degree, works on non-uni days and is pretty independent. Our eldest left home at 16 and 12 years on is a mother, married with her first (owned) home.

No infantilising young people here.

Lol, sorry... just read back my response, sounds arsey, wasn't meant to...

We don't infantilise ours either ... one at uni abroad (21), other (20) at UK uni... they sort themselves out.

THANK YOU.
Far too much "we now know" pseudoscience trotted out on MN when what they actually mean is " I read it in a magazine or on MN once and it suits what I would like to believe"

Dr Ramirez was no doubt talking about life expectancy at birth and as you say yourself your recollection is faulty.
How about "sorry, my error" instead of this passive aggressive nonsense?

YANBU
There is a conspiracy in government and has been for decades now not to build enough homes for our population.

This is due to vested interests of the powerful in keeping house prices high. It's a tragedy for young people, ditto the huge number of unnecessary degrees and making so many jobs require a degree just as a way of sorting the applications.

Dr Ramirez was no doubt talking about life expectancy at birth and as you say yourself your recollection is faulty.

“How about "sorry, my error" instead of this passive aggressive nonsense?“

not sure I’m the passive aggressive person here, you sound quite cross.

Dr. Ramirez. That’s it, thanks. Like her, knows her stuff.

have a nice day.

“Lol, sorry... just read back my response, sounds arsey, wasn't meant to.“

No worries, BeyondMyWits, not taken as arsey at all. Actually realised you had made a very fair point!

More pass agg ( 'have a nice day'? That it?) . I care about history and the facts. You are wrong. Deal with it.

I think the reason that many people in their mid 20s are regarded as children is precisely because they are childish
The dean of Durham uni said in an interview that 20 year ago when people arrived at Uni they were young adults but most are now still children
That said I know a lot on the mid 20s who are buying theor own home
They have well paid jobs from stockbroker to electrician and did not wats 4 years and get a 50k debt studying sociology or humanities which are worthless in the work place

No the problem has been mass immigration
I do not want every bit of green space built on
Insects and animals have lived here for years - they have the right not to have their homes destroyed

I agree, imo much of it is about using them as cash cows, stopping them from becoming properly adult is a way of keeping them subservient and obedient so they can be manipulated according to the interests of those in power

Immigration has been entirely necessary due to falling birth rates and a rising dependency ratio. We can't fund all the pensions and run the NHS and care system without migration.
I also assume anyone complaining about house building has 1. Not had kids, 2. Is not under occupying their house. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.

I'm inclined to see mass immigration as another of the governments 'blunt instruments'.... It's a way of keeping us riled up stressed and angry so that we are easier to manipulate, while we are all stressed and angry it's difficult for us to think logically and in a nuanced way about problems

I completely agree OP, and I think the mass rise in mental health crisis in young people is cos of the drifting that is actively encouraged in adults under 30.

We tell young people to delay getting married until their late twenties minimum, so we essentially tell them not to take relationships seriously in their early 20s.

We tell them to drift into uni to do courses whete they have six hours contact time a week, they sit around halls most of the other time essentially playing. Its not healthy. Compare that to a 19 year old getting out there in the world of work.

We actively encourage too much drifting which is bad for mental health imo.

Nothing to do with parents over praising and them believing they could do anything? Then they find out the world doesn’t owe them and they have to work at it?

e tell them to drift into uni to do courses whete they have six hours contact time a week, they sit around halls most of the other time essentially playing. Its not healthy. Compare that to a 19 year old getting out there in the world of work
I think uni is a good idea, youngsters will have enough years to work as it is, what’s the rush?

Getting them into massive debt at age 18 (uni) being an example of how they can then be controlled and kept down - and without even the perks of having a house, which is what you used to get if you took on £50k of debt!