To think our economy infantilises young people

[HurryupwiththeteA]

I’ve got a DS who’s 18 and I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I love history and learning about different time periods and when I think what some of the 18-25 year olds used to have vs now it’s stunning. Henry VIII became king when he was 18. Slightly more realistically, up until not so many years ago young people were able to move out, get jobs that actually pay money you can live on, get married, have children, etc. I know some can especially closer to 25 but for many that’s simply not a reality.

Today minimum wage jobs (which are absolutely necessary and often quite skilled) are simply not enough to live on meaning that for many they feel their only option is university.

The student loan system requires you to be dependent on your parents (especially if they earn more) as the maintenance grant simply will not cover living expenses and (back to my last point) they’re only option is minimum wage will does not pay.

After graduating in most areas home ownership is not realistic given the exorbitant cost. This leaves them with the option of living at home for many years to try and save up (or rent and most likely never be able to afford a house deposit).

Because they don’t have their own place, relationships are often either causal hookups or quite short lived. This means that marriage or children if usually out of the question until they are much older.

Many other things such as being treated like they’re not really adults by older people, being marketed crap they don’t need keeping them in the rat race, calls to raise the age to smoke, so many other things.

Sadly I think the answers to these problems just aren’t going to happen. Major house building, distressing the importance of degrees for jobs that simply don’t need them, making the minimum wage enough to actually live on, controls on rent, stopping interest on student loans and raising the repayment threshold. None of these will ever happen, for political reasons, but frankly they should.

Aibu to think that young adults (18-25) are pretty infantilised today. It seems like 25 is the new 18 and until your mid 20s now society often still sees you as a child. Furthermore, Aibu to think this

I think throughout history young people have lived at home with their parents. I think the idea that you can get your own house, car etc at say 20 is a very modern expectation.

When I was young, 70s/80s, few people lived at home with their parents. They moved into flats with other young people. However, I agree that buying a house at a very young age is a modern expectation. I certainly didn't earn enough when I left school to even consider it.

I get what you are saying OP but with the retirement age being moved to so late in life I don’t think there’s as much as a rush to enter adulthood ‘proper’.

I had 12 GCSEs, dropped out halfway through college due to family/home issues. Worked in a shoe shop then got receptionist apprenticeship.
Then did another receptionist apprenticeship, because the qualification isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

Wasn’t trying to get into a profession, just wanted a NMW job rather than apprenticeship or age-minimum job.

Not that well by all accounts. In many ways they would have been far more sheltered than today's young people. Most had never travelled beyond their local town and they had no TV and few books. They would have been more used to physical hardship and more independent in some ways (although lots of 18 year olds would still live with parents until they married, it would be highly unusual for a single young person to live in their own house)

Of course this has everything to do with having no qualifications.

You didn’t have an issue with NMW, you had an issue with having no qualifications

Sounds like you did ok all things considered. Wasn't criticising you just saying that qualifications do help with getting better paid jobs. That is what they are for after all. I've witnessed the repeated reception apprentices in my work place. The apprentices were usually much better and less lazy than the permanent staff. It was the other poster's professional at 18 story that seemed dubious.

No, I have an issue with NMW.

School qualifications are obtained in childhood. Childhood is affected by parents. Feckless parents and childhood abuse often result in children moving out early with minimal qualifications.

They should be able to support themselves reasonably independently on a full day’s work. It benefits society for them to do this. If they later want to get into a career, they can do this by studying while supporting themselves, but first they deserve to be paid appropriately rather than continuing to be exploited.

I believe in one thing: a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.

I have an issue with anything that impedes it.

Thanks, I did- it was hard work obviously but the career I’m in now has real prospects. I needed to get out from the abuse first in able to get here though and I can see why many people don’t come out of it okay. I don’t think anyone should be treated the way I was, and wish society would make it easier for future young people to survive and better themselves.

Yanbu. It’s a big problem. Agree with what you say.

There is a huge mix out there... Dd21 is living as a student in Germany in a shared house she arranged herself, learning the language as she goes. Made the money to follow her dreams working in a tech support call center during covid.

Not all young people are living at home waiting for life to be delivered to them.

Agree with PPs who say it's not the economy, it's us!

I was in a meeting this week and someone was complaining that her daughter was in Germany and was planning to fly back to Britain for Christmas but was very stressed about possible delays due to the strikes. 'She's only 26', she said.

Only 26!!! That's an adult, FFS. I had dealt with that sort of situation several times by the time I was 26, as I travelled to Europe quite often for work. Yes, it's quite stressful but nothing really bad happens, and often you meet some really interesting people as everyone gets together to make the best of things.

This woman and her husband are prepared to drive to Germany to pick up their daughter and bring her home. I was astonished at how pathetic they all are.

Dd had her own flat and car before she was 20

NMW is a relatively recent thing (1998)

My first salary worked out at 46p per hour.

A case of take it or leave it as there were 4 million other people queuing behind you who would take it.

Parents are nowadays expected to contribute significantly to higher ed costs and so i think their involvment is inevitable

Someone made a good point earlier. If the youngsters are expected to retire at 70 (my FIL retired on final salary pension at 52) then I don’t blame them having some fun and not being responsible adults until they are older. My FIL started work at 16 snd retired at 52 so 36 years. I didn’t start work until 22 and will retire at 67 so 45 years. Therefore if they start proper working at 25 that’s 45 years to the age of 70.

My first salary worked out at 46p per hour.

In what year though?

I'd agree with that. I left uni in 1995. No chance of getting my own place and family not supporting me. I rented a room in a house share but still managed to have the same boyfriend for 8 years. It was also not possible then to live off full student grant. I worked as well.

A colleague of mine is much younger than me and buying his own place at the moment. When I bought I cobbled together hand me downs and very cheap second hand stuff to try and get the basics (fridge, mattress) and then made do without the rest, buying it over time. He can't fathom that and says he 'has' to keep 1000s back to furnish the whole place with reasonable stuff in one go. Expectations have changed.

Expectations have changed.

But logically expectations would be different as FTBs are much older now. My DB bought recently & went straight for a house because he's older & expecting a baby.

Your colleague cannot be very representative if they are buying when young & have 1000s held back for furnishing. That's not the typical FTB is it?

This. People's view of history is so tinted by a) the very recent past and b) the majority of our information/media focussing on the richest 1% of the historical population

It really was not the norm for most girls to be getting married and having children at 12/13 - that was nearly only the most aristocratic families. The majority of women throughout history didn't marry until their mid 20s on average. Yes people would have joined the workforce earlier but on the other hand until 1918 the majority of the population wouldn't even have been entitled to vote. Until the 19th century most would have been barely literate. Lots of people would have stayed living with their parents in 3/4/5 generation homes until the older generation died off. For centuries the majority of people would have lived within a few miles of where they were born.

Rather than comparing, eg. Margaret Beaufort to your average 13 year old today, compare her to someone like Greta Thunberg or Malala Yousafzai - i.e. an outlier!

Comparing my life to my mum, in her late 50s, she moved straight from her parents house to living with my dad. I used to get the 'when I was your age I had a mortgage and was married with a child...' schtick but on the other hand she's never lived alone or with friends, been the sole person responsible for paying the bills, never travelled alone - all of which my sister and I had done by our late teens, even if it was in uni houseshares. So its peaks and troughs in terms of who has experienced the most 'independence.'

Also agree with the poster who pointed out that for young people who don't go to uni they often do achieve these 'milestones' early - my brother's friendship cohort were getting married, buying houses and having kids on average nearly a decade before mine, because they nearly all left school at 16-18 and went straight into apprenticeships, so were earning good money by the time I was still trying to get on my first graduate scheme.

I also disagree that people are discouraged from forming serious relationships - if anything it is SO expensive now that it's hugely beneficial to be in a couple early on so you can share expenses, whether that's 1 room in a houseshare or both getting the H2B ISA bonus rather than just 1 person etc.

Well there was mention of Henry VIII in the OP, so around his era I'd guess?

At 21 (am only 29 now) I was earning £25k a year

What's "only" about 29?

I'm not sure I agree with you - neither my nephew or niece went to Uni, but both had moved out before they were 25 and bought their own flats. They live within 50 miles of London. Both have worked very hard, nephew is now married and they've upgraded the flat by completely redecorating (bought a doer upper) to a vey nice semi

I don’t understand why it isn’t classed as age discrimination to pay differently due to age. If the job is the same, and one worker is 16 and the other 56, and they both do it to the same standard, how is it fair for the older employee to earn more?!

Not for everyone it wasn't. When i got married in 82 my husband was a clerk for the dss and i was an apprentice. We had to live with my in-laws for the first 2 years as did many young people in those days