To think our economy infantilises young people

[HurryupwiththeteA]

I’ve got a DS who’s 18 and I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I love history and learning about different time periods and when I think what some of the 18-25 year olds used to have vs now it’s stunning. Henry VIII became king when he was 18. Slightly more realistically, up until not so many years ago young people were able to move out, get jobs that actually pay money you can live on, get married, have children, etc. I know some can especially closer to 25 but for many that’s simply not a reality.

Today minimum wage jobs (which are absolutely necessary and often quite skilled) are simply not enough to live on meaning that for many they feel their only option is university.

The student loan system requires you to be dependent on your parents (especially if they earn more) as the maintenance grant simply will not cover living expenses and (back to my last point) they’re only option is minimum wage will does not pay.

After graduating in most areas home ownership is not realistic given the exorbitant cost. This leaves them with the option of living at home for many years to try and save up (or rent and most likely never be able to afford a house deposit).

Because they don’t have their own place, relationships are often either causal hookups or quite short lived. This means that marriage or children if usually out of the question until they are much older.

Many other things such as being treated like they’re not really adults by older people, being marketed crap they don’t need keeping them in the rat race, calls to raise the age to smoke, so many other things.

Sadly I think the answers to these problems just aren’t going to happen. Major house building, distressing the importance of degrees for jobs that simply don’t need them, making the minimum wage enough to actually live on, controls on rent, stopping interest on student loans and raising the repayment threshold. None of these will ever happen, for political reasons, but frankly they should.

Aibu to think that young adults (18-25) are pretty infantilised today. It seems like 25 is the new 18 and until your mid 20s now society often still sees you as a child. Furthermore, Aibu to think this

Mine was £25 per week. 1981

I don’t understand why it isn’t classed as age discrimination to pay differently due to age. If the job is the same, and one worker is 16 and the other 56, and they both do it to the same standard, how is it fair for the older employee to earn more?!

Why should someone with 30 plus years experience be paid the same as a new starter? This is where minimum wage is a rubbish idea, which then pushes people into the benefit system - which in turn means they can’t earn more without losing money in the bank.

They system is set up to keep people poor.

This was also my experience of teaching at a university. I couldn't take some of the "problems" the students had seriously 😳 It was ridiculous how many wanted to defer exams because of "anxiety". I mean, everyone gets anxious about taking exams. It's a pretty normal feeling. How will constant deferring help that?

Oh, and the exams were OPEN BOOK exams where we actually just gave the students the answers to all the questions!

I agree for the most part so Yanbu.

But I think you yourself are adding to the infantilising with this…
After graduating in most areas home ownership is not realistic given the exorbitant cost. This leaves them with the option of living at home for many years to try and save up (or rent and most likely never be able to afford a house deposit).

Its such a commonly held belief drilled into us from so young in liberal politic circles, the media, common parlance that I nearly fell for it myself. But it is simply untrue. Many can buy houses in their 20s on minimum wage. If living in a house share and living off similar amounts of cash as the student maintenance loan then the maths leave you with a decent saving for deposit in most midlands and northern areas.

The thing no one wants to say is ‘yes you can buy a house - just not where you want it what you want.’ But these kinds of limiting expectations and being expected to move away and travel are important parts of adulthood all previous generations have had to do.

I agree massively.

I’m still in my twenties but I had jobs (and some tough jobs at that) when I started uni at 18 and beyond. I’ve always been an incredibly hard worker- I take pride in doing a job well, I’m meticulous and like things to be done properly.

I now work in management and I am really struggling with some of the younger hires.

The job they’ve been hired to do is pretty simple and straightforward. And the same jobs need done every single day in the workplace. There’s an incredibly consistent routine for them to follow- nothing really changes in regards to their workload (it’s management who deals with everything else).

Yet apparently it’s too difficult. They tend to spend the majority of the shift-

• complaining about the task they’ve been given
• complaining about being bored (yet when given a task it remains untouched unless it’s something they deem worthy of doing)
• don’t listen fully when you’re giving them an instruction, so come back 15-30 minutes later asking “what did you want me to do, again?”
• hiding in the toilets/other areas of the workplace
• ignoring other staff when they’re being called down to assist them (basically waiting until someone else does it so they can go back to skiving)
• trying to take extra time on their allocated breaks
• constantly on their phones

And so on.

I always give new starts some leeway for the first few months as I know it’s hard fitting into a new workplace with new staff, routines etc to follow. And I know younger staff members need extra time sometimes as they’re just teenagers themselves. But there comes a point where a boundary is crossed and as a result, some uncomfortable conversations will have to be had.

I really struggle to understand why this age group is so difficult to get (any) work out of. My friends in other sectors, and also within the same company, are struggling with exactly the same issues that I am with their younger hires as well, so it’s not as if I just got “unlucky”.

They basically want to only do what they want, take constant breaks to text people and be on their phones, get paid for a full shift and go home.

It really fucks me off. I’m in an industry which is incredibly busy over Christmas and I don’t have the time to micromanage my staff as I have a thousand and one other jobs that I need to do myself, but unfortunately going forward I will have to until they either get with the programme or quit.

I feel like a lot of it is parents who are babying their kids, though. Ie I asked one of my staff members to tidy up their workplace as it was a complete mess (we’re talking stuff all over the floor, items not put back when not being used, etc). I came back 30 minutes later and not a single item had been moved, and asked why it hadn’t been done. The response I got was “what do you mean tidy up?” So I had to stand there and explain how to put rubbish into a bin.

I’m sorry, but that shit is on their parents.

it does show that women with degrees tend to choose to postpone their families

I disagree with this; I think the OP is right in that women who end up going to university don’t have a choice but to have their children later due to delay saving a house deposit, having more outgoings with student loan, often starting on a low wage after 3/4 years at uni so can’t afford to save / move out for a while.
I don’t think it’s a choice at all. It’s a circumstance.

I don't think you need to look back as far as Henry VIII.

I went to university at 18. I wasn't expected to live at home again. I managed my own money - no contribution from parents - and had no further support. I spent 3 years in a bedsit, graduated, got a job, saved up by never going out or spending anything, and bought a dump of a flat at 24. Grim but by 25 I was on my feet. I also paid NI during my 16th, 17th and 18th years because I worked all the holidays. I had my 35 years NI paid by 56 so I can retire if necessary. I started paying into a private pension at 22.

My dsd had two gap years, a year at uni, swapped courses and started again, another 3 years, then came home & bummed around for four years, then did PGCE and finally got a job just before her 30th birthday. It was ridiculous.

And will cause her issues in the long run because if she wants a full state pension, she now has to work to 65. Her teacher pension only started at 30. She was allowed to miss out on a decade of earnings.

Maybe a total withdrawal of support at 18 wasn't the best, but I'd rather that than be a perpetual child. My DS will always be welcome at home but I expect him to be financially independent at 21.

My DCs (in the US) all started babysitting or doing odd jobs for money at about age 12-13. I've mentioned this here and got howls of horror in response. When they were 16 they got summer office jobs at the going rate for entry level work, using their babysitting clients for references, and kept up the babysitting during the school year.

It stands to reason that when employers can pay less for the work of a person under 18 or 21 or whatever, they'll have a workplace with a revolving door, and they'll laugh all the way to the bank - not sure why this is hard to understand?

I know of a mother who went mad at the people running her daughter's student accommodation because the igniter on the cooker had stopped working and they'd provided a box of matches for them to light it with until they got it fixed. She "didn't want her daughter playing with matches".

Parents really aren't doing their children any favours. The purpose of being a parent and having children is to produce fully formed, well-rounded adults. Not adult children who are reliant on their parents all their lives.

Your DSD didn’t have a single job until she was nearly 30? Or do you mean she had part time jobs that were NMW or similar before her teaching job?

Because if her teaching role is her first ever job then you’re totally right in that being utterly ridiculous.

I will always believe that every single 18 year old needs to have a customer facing job before they graduate university. Even if it’s only a few hours a week- it teaches you so much that university courses alone just can’t offer.

I think that’s also a big issue as well. Kids who go from their course in uni into a grad job and then have these grandiose expectations of what their role is as they’ve never experienced anything else before.

Anyone I’ve ever worked with who was a graduate who had never had another job, to this day, has always been a bit of an arsehole. Very fussy about what they want to do, not a team player, and struggles to cope when shit hits the fan. Always the first to pull out excuses as well, or blame others. Whereas colleagues who had those part time gigs tend to pull their weight and stay fairly calm and collected, and take responsibility for their work.

Sometimes it really is like night and day between them.

I don't think it infantilises them. I think it gives them very few choices though and also leaves them ripe for exploitation of all sorts.

For every five young people who have the "infantilising" safety net of a secure parental home for when they just aren't able to support themselves short term, there's at least one whose family life is a disaster - if not emotionally abusive then just without enough money coming in to do that. And those young people are, quite frankly, screwed, because they get shit insecure work that buys them shit insecure substandard housing and they can't afford bills and food.

Really, anyone young now should get the fuck out of here if they have any kind of skillset at all. The UK has very little to offer them even when they work hard.

@BirdyWoof I'm glad I'm not the only one finding them difficult. I've just had to fire someone who could not get it into her head that work starts at 9. We wfh four days a week. She only had to roll out of bed and switch on her PC. In fact she could stay in bed if she turned off her camera.

Instead she logged on at 9.45, she turned up for a 9.30 meeting in the office at 11.58, and (the final straw) phoned me 10 mins before another meeting to admit she was still in Spain after her weekend because she couldn't get a flight - except this was Thursday.

Now I'm trying to recruit a replacement and 1 in 4 applicants doesn't show up for interview. I'm genuinely puzzled. We're paying £35k to start so it's not peanuts. I've found a candidate who is early 40s and seems a better bet. I can't afford another failure.

@MintJulia much of what you’ve said is exactly what my colleagues are dealing with in other departments in regards to hiring staff as well (in a role that is suited for young adults)

Job ads go up, and then you check out who’s applied. Say 10 have applied for a full time role-

• 3 of them don’t meet the criteria in any way and clearly haven’t read the JD
• 7 of them do so you invite them to interview, where 4 don’t show up at all
• out of the 3 remaining, two interview awfully to the point where you can’t offer them a job
• you then are left with 1 candidate, and then it’s a 50:50 chance on whether they’ll even accept the role or show up for their induction.

It’s utterly depressing.

I also agree with you on them not showing up on time as well. One of ours never checks their shift patterns so you always get a text asking “when am I working next?”

This drives me up the wall. The rotas are available online and paper copies are printed out and left in the communal area 3 weeks in advance. Yet you still need me, or another member of management, to essentially be your PA. Again, I blame this on the parents who clearly give them 0 responsibilities at home.

Yes I completely agree. I’m 30 and still treated like a child by my entire family. It’s very frustrating, but ultimately comes from the fact I have never been able to be financially independent (all minimum wage jobs despite working lots of hours). I have accepted that I’m viewed as and always will be viewed as a ‘dependent’. I’m now dependent on DH… I’m aware if ever my relationship was to fail I would be basically screwed…

Fuck the broken system we have to live in 😢

YANBU someone was calling Meghan and Harry young they are middle aged ffs.

I also paid NI during my 16th, 17th and 18th years because I worked all the holidays. I had my 35 years NI paid by 56 so I can retire if necessary.

You won't get your state pension at 56 though!

Also that's not unusual, I paid NI since 17 & throughout uni, the contributions needed were pretty small. You don't stop paying after 35 years of contributions.

Really, anyone young now should get the fuck out of here if they have any kind of skillset at all. The UK has very little to offer them even when they work hard.

i agree with this.

Comparing at age Ds is now he is doing more than we did. At 17 we didn’t have casual jobs but he does plus his friends.

Could not agree more OP- it’s also insulting when much older generations throw it in their faces “well I had two kids and two mortgages by 24”-
“I worked full time when my children were 1” good for you, you had a hell of an easy time of it didn’t you? They honestly think it’s down to them rather than the luck of the society you grew up in.

I worked with someone age 25 who's dad pack her lunch for her. She was annoyed he put in the wrong flavour yoghurt. I was like...

I worked with someone age 25 who's dad pack her lunch for her. She was annoyed he put in the wrong flavour yoghurt. I was like..

you think this is representative of a whole generation?

There is a lot of anecdotal stuff in here about lazy, entitled young adults. I want to throw in my own anecdotal observation. Older parents are to blame. I was a young mum and a lot of my DCs peers had older parents, they were all infantalised and generally spoiled. I was baffled at some of the shit they got away with and the things they were bought. I noticed that that the common thread among their spoiled peers was the age of the parent

I realise all of that, but I don't have to earn more years NI now if I can find a way to support myself. Dsd has no choice but to work to 65 because she wasted the first 10 years. I just think she was very badly advised.

I think basically from 18 it's time to be an adult. With a bit of leeway given till maybe 20/21 as it's all very new.
I think that bit of research, as interesting as it was, about brain development up to age 25, has been latched onto and poorly understood by laypeople.

Scotland, when it comes to criminal sentencing guidelines, considers under 25s "young people" and they serve lesser sentences. The thought of a 24 year old man receiving a lesser sentence because he's considered not a grown-up is frankly ridiculous.