To think about moving from a house into a flat?

[Thepotdog]

DH and I moved back from London to my hometown in the north during Covid, lived in the city centre and then moved out and bought a house in the suburbs. We’ve never really settled, we find it a bit boring with not much going on and haven’t met anyone. Husband still works in London so is away a lot and I’m pretty lonely.
We’re considering moving back to an area right next to the city, area is a lot more vibrant, cafe culture, bars, shops , restaurants etc. plus 10 minute walk into the centre and a much younger demographic. It reminds me a lot of our old life back in London.

The only sticking point is we’d only be able to afford a (large) flat and I’m currently pregnant with 1st baby. The flat we’ve seen is over 2 floors, 3 beds, 2 baths, kitchen and 2 reception rooms so fairly big. Our current house is 4 bed, over 3 floors with garage, drive and garden for comparison. Both sets of parents think we are mad and that we are totally underestimating how our lives will change once the baby is here. But the thought of having a baby in our current area makes me feel even more isolated.

Are we being unreasonable to think this would work?

That roof garden looks lovely

I like the roof terrace, but it does not appear big enough for kids to ride their bikes or kick a ball around.

I wouldn't go for less than 3 bed if i had a baby. I am in a 2 bed now and i am used to having a spare room. Hence i want to move to a 3 bed. this would be even more so if she is used to having a 4 bed. Most flats have communal gardens and she also has a roof terrace so the outside aspect is taken care of. But the internal number of rooms is something that is hard to fix. loft conversions would only get more expensive and esp in the north, it may not make as much sense.

Congrats on your pregnancy! Only you could know what's right for you OP but I think a 3 bed flat in a bustling location sounds better to me. That does depend however on accessibility etc as you might not want to be lugging a pram up and down stairs twice a day. Also outdoor space - is there a garden? That can help in summer. Good luck x

Most people with apartment budgets would not be able to afford a large garden either. I own a flat in z2 north london and i cannot afford a house where children can ride bikes around or kick balls around in most decent areas in the UK (north south or whatever) unless it is rural or deprived or very far from transport links.

415k or even 550k does not go very far in the UK these days. Its a pretty low budget even in the likes of Altrincham! I could afford a house with garden there sure, but not a big garden.

I get that the suburbs aren't for everyone. I felt incredibly lonely on mat leave as I couldn't find many like minded parents in the suburban area where we lived. No one wanted to let their kids get messy or even questioned the boys in blue, girls in pink thing. Everyone was pretty obsessed with routine and nap times and being in the house for 4pm for tea.
I moved back to the city and loved it. So many more meet ups and I found such a lovely community of fellow fuck ups. I would have moved to a buzzier area in your situation.
You don't have a full personality transplant when you give birth. The things you like and enjoy before childbirth are still the things you like afterwards, although doing them might be trickier. I remember asking in my fave hipster vegan cafe if they had s high chair, might as well have asked for a rump steak!

Go for it. The one caveat I'd have is to walk round your new area and scope it out for family friendliness - what are parks like, are there cafes/museums/cinemas that welcome small kids, are there baby and child groups? If yes, move.

I live in a flat in Central London and have one child and another on the way. I love where we are and wouldn't consider moving. We have a big flat and it's bigger than so of my friends houses so space isn't an issue. We don't have a garden which I know is a problem for some but we are close to lots of parks.

That pic of roof terrace
Scare the shit over me
A little toddler could climb over that easily..
You never be able to leave the doors to that open ever once your baby was moving.

I had my first child in a flat. I managed and it was fine but by the second we had moved to a house and it was so much easier. I could go out for a walk, push baby sleeping in pram through the door and have an hour's peace. That isn't an option when you have to take them up the stairs.

It was also tricky once they started crawling as I couldn't carry baby and buggy down the stairs so I had to get a playpen for baby, run up and down with all the stuff and then get baby. I live in a quiet place and the entrance was in a garden but I wouldn't want to have to leave a pram/stuff in a busy area.

Personally I think you are mad. Move yes but I don't think what you describe will suit family life.
If you already had a flat then yes it can be made to work but I wouldn't actively choose it on your position.

Have you explored what baby classes and activities run where? This is what you'll need. I scoffed at mum friends but you need people going through the same thing as you at the same time. It's invaluable. You also need to consider schools and catchment areas.

Big drawback of a flat is proximity to neighbours. It's fine until it's not. When you have kids you're at home a LOT more, and the kids naturally will make noise, running about, bashing toys etc. Even if you have lovely neighbours downstairs you will feel conscious of the noise all the time. And if you have bad neighbours, it's very hard to live with bad neighbours when it's your family home. I'd choose the house for that reason alone. Peace of mind is important.

Issues with the lease and other leaseholders. Unexpected repair bills and increase in ground rent and service charges. Badly converted flats with poor sound and impact insulation.

We had our first 3 children in a 2 bedroom that was up a flight of stairs. About 10 stairs front and back. We had a garden but it wasn't much used as it wasn't visible from inside the house. Instead the verandah, which was smaller than the terrace you've put pictures of, was our outdoor play space.

And it was absolutely fine until we had the third child.

Yes, there were times I hated the stairs and sleeping babies. But in much of the world that's a norm and it really wasn't that awful.

We now have a garden, and to be honest my kids aren't out there much. The garage with the hammock sees much more of them than the space for ball kicking and the basketball area. They are now 10-16. Garden did see an enormous amount of use when the 4 of them were small, but we also home educated until the eldest was 7 so they were home a lot. And we spent a lot of time at the park 300m away too. Which is their preferred outdoor play space now.

If there is a park nearby and other families with young children, and you don't plan to have more than 2 children (yes, that could change but you don't need to borrow trouble) then I'd say you have considered a lot.

Being in a local area where you can walk to library story time, cafes and parks is massively helpful with little ones. We never wanted to deal with needing 2 cars, so being walking distance to the station also imperative for us.

@MillyMollyManky I thought you meant you gave birth to both in the lift and was wondering what the chances were of that happening to someone twice

i heard neighbours a lot more when i was living in my MIL's victorian terraced house. it was very poorly insulated.

The thing is in a way its quite unique that OP is choosing between a 4 bed detached house and a flat. for most people choosing between flats and houses, they are choosing between an amazing flat and a less than optimal house. So sometimes it makes sense to go for the flat. And going for the great house would mean moving miles away possibly with a 1.5 hour commute to work.

To be fair OP, DH says that he is happy to live in a flat in London but not a flat outside London, including in places like St Albans.

oh good so it wasnt just me

It's not just the cladding issue, either. Add into the issues @FerretInAFrock noted

• freeholder who has announced that they have no intention of fulfilling their obligations under the lease regarding repairs and maintenance
• management company who ask for more and more money and do nothing (increase of £ 500 per flat over four years)
• getting management co to even reply to emails

OP, it's a real lottery as to what freeholder and management co you get. You might be lucky, or you might be us - and the above is just a few of what we're dealing with. Over £ 30k paid since 2018 and we can't even get them to paint the hall.

I think it sounds ideal! You’d have private outdoor space which is a huge bonus with a baby/toddler. Walkability and being near cafes, parks, community spaces all perfect with a baby.
1 flight of stairs is fine, you’ll have to work out systems for juggling baby and shopping (can feel a bit like the fox/rabbit/river riddle) but a minor inconvenience for many advantages.

The OP did mention she could erect a bigger fence I think.

Re noise: when DD was a baby we lived on an unbelievably noisy street (think regular 3am parties, reviving engines, pub noise, kids playing out until 10pm). It actually wasn’t a problem with her tying her to sleep then.

We have since moved to a more suburban area but DD is still really good at falling asleep and staying asleep through anything, which is great and I think probably because we could never achieve anything even remotely approaching silence when she was a baby 😂

I reeeeeeeeally wouldn't fancy the first floor and no lift. The baby will inevitably go to sleep 5 minutes from home every fucking time. They do these things on purpose.

Was actually in a similar position considering moving to a first floor flat when I was pregnant with DC1, parents and MIL said don't do it, I thought they were being ridiculous but didn't move there for other reasons. I now see what a pain it would've been!

No chance of a ground floor flat?

4 years will pass quickly, so what are the primary schools like in both locations? The baby stage doesn't last long, so what will it be like there with a small child or children if you have more? Also you haven't mention what is at ground floor. If it is commercial property then will they be making noise, open late etc?

I would wait until baby is born then see how you feel

We moved out of a flat and into a house when my youngest was 3. It was quite hard to sell, with it being a freehold flat and the likelihood of a 15-20k bill in the future for replacement windows. it had a communal garden but we were second floor so might as well have gone to the park by the time we all got ready to go outside. It’s not like I could nip upstairs and leave the 2 year old if I needed something.

The main issue we ended up moving was the noise our son made playing that enraged our downstairs so much he smacked a broom on his ceiling if our son dared to try and roll a train along the floor. We weren’t inconsiderate with noise at all but it was a converted jam factory and I guess sound proofing wasn’t the best, but it was horrible all through lockdown feeling like we could hardly laugh or play without this man flying into a rage. I would just be wary of situations like this. Nothing makes me happier than my now two sons being able to get any toy out and play with it now we are in a house rather than feeling constantly on edge if a toy slipped out of his hand. He was a solicitor and said he needed absolute silence to work and somehow forgot it was a residential building 🤷‍♀️ Just something to consider with the rise of home working!

Have a look if there are any playgroups/ NCT groups etc in your current area. Having a baby is a great way to meet people so it might help you integrate into a your existing area.

Well the problem with babies on a flat is that you will always be so stressed when they’re crying all night. We found it really hard to settle our children and sleep train them because we were always so worried about noise.

the rest of it is doable shopping etc. we managed on a second floor