My very needy DM

[HTruffle]

I’m hoping some of you can help me on what to do regarding my DM and holidays.

My DM is 71 and a difficult character. I would describe her as having quite extreme victim mentality even though she has, and has had a reasonably easy life and has no real reasons to act this way. My DF died many years ago although they were not close and my DM spent many an hour talking to me and my sibling as children about his perceived failings.
My DMs attitude to life is either ‘woe is me’ or ‘I can’t do that’. This applies to almost everything despite the fact that she is, physically and intelligence wise, quite capable. For example she has given up driving because she is ‘old’. She is physically capable of driving and has no problem reading road signs. She just does this with everything, putting everything to arm’s length. Typical things for her to say would be ‘I can’t get the bus, the step on is too high’, yet she has no physical issues that would stop her climbing on a bus. ‘I can’t eat crusty bread, my teeth aren’t up to it’ – even though she has spent a fortune on private dentistry and has excellent quality implants. These constant issues rarely have any basis and are absolutely incessant, she could mention many things like this a day.
‘I can’t fill in forms, you’ll have to do it for me’ even with the simplest of things eg a name & address, she won’t consider it, says she’ll ‘go to pieces’ etc.
She also has anxiety and my sibling and I have provided much support with this including attending GP apt with her (at her request), encouraging counselling, reminding her to take Ads (prescribed).
On top of this, she doesn’t have a good word to say about anyone. She has a couple of friends, but you wouldn’t know they were friends from the ways she talks about them – focusing on their bad points, delighted to tell you if there’s been a family fallout. She has a very good, kind neighbour who has done a lot for her – particularly over lockdown, and yet she will rant on about how awful & self absorbed she is over & over again.
On top of this she is exceedingly repetitive, despite having very little of substance to say. We have questioned whether she has some sort of dementia, but it was not picked up at her GP appts despite my informing them of the above, and this has all been going on for 10 years plus (albeit worsening in recent years).
Her social life, apart from the neighbour mentioned above, consists solely of my sibling and I. We see her at least twice a week (live in same town). My sibling at least once every two weeks. She will not drive or use any form of transport other than our cars. She refuses to get a bus, train, taxi, anything. However she frequently points out that she would be fine getting on any of the above if I was with her.

Despite the frequency that we see her, every time will open with a barbed comment about how long it is since she has seen my children (7 & 5).

My issue now is this. I have sort of made my peace with the frequency we see her and the frustrations linked to the above. But my DH, children and I would like to start going on slightly more adventurous holidays (nothing major, just Europe or maybe US, etc). My mum drops endless hints about how much she would love to come on these hypothetical holidays. Endless comments about how nice it would be to have some sun to look forward to. Looking up at planes and sighing theatrically about how she’d love to be going somewhere nice. This coming from the woman who can’t get on a bus to the next village but will gladly hop aboard a plane if I ‘take her’.
I feel very, very claustrophobic about the situation and backed into a corner – I feel quite sure that she would spoil any holidays for the most part, If she were to come with us, I just know she would want to spend every minute of the day with me. She would not be confident enough to join any activities solo, or even go for a walk, I am sure of it. I wouldn’t be able to relax or enjoy the time with my DH for her being there. However, the idea of telling her that we are going on one without her seems unthinkable such is the pressure I feel under. I am sure that the stress she makes me feel, makes me a worse parent as well – having to listen to her tales while looking after my two children makes me far less patient and dare I say snappy with everyone.

Suggestions welcome, many thanks. Sorry it’s so long!

You know she slags you down to the ground when you are not there, don’t you ?

Gosh, this sounds like a very one sided relationship and she has got you exactly where she wants you! Boundaries are needed, fast!

YANBU, I definitely wouldn’t take her on the family holiday if you know it will ruin it (for both you and DH/kids). And I say this as someone who does take my 72 yo on holidays with us.

But my mum is very easy going, insists on paying her way and is happy to relax on her own if we want to do something adventurous like a trek.

A compromise might be to take her on a weekend away?

Re the driving and going out and about, this can be a confidence thing. I've seen this happen to older women when they lose their husbands. That doesn't excuse the bitchiness, of course. My own experience of my own DM was of her banging on and on about a particular trip. So I booked it as a surprise for her and me - a weekend away. And guess what? She refused to come! Said she couldn't leave my (perfectly capable) dad on his own. So I went alone.
Anyway, your best bet is to explain how your holiday wouldn't be suitable (revolves around kids' activities, whatever) and get her to join a group of similar people for a holiday - start with a coach tour in this country, where they pick you up from home.

YANBU book your holiday and don't take her. If you can, book something that you can do with her at the same time; Centre Parcs or whatever so you are giving her something to look forward to.

Ultimately, it is not your job to make her happy. If seeing her twice a week is too much for you then scale it back to a place where you are comfortable and keep it there. She will adjust to a new normal, or if she doesn't that is her problem!

My ILs in their own words would see us 'all the time'. We can never be enough. We see them every 4-6 weeks, it keeps the relationship alive but in a way we are comfortable with.

I have some similarities with you. Widowed DM around same age. Children the same age.

I have my suspicions my mum has early signs of dementia too. Getting lost on familiar journeys recently. For many years though her world has just closed in and she's doing less and less and getting out less and less. She has has a negative spin on things and rants a lot about life. She's starting to get a bit critical about the children's behaviour too whereas previously she's enjoyed seeing them. Some of it is age and being widowed too.

In your circumstance I would book yourself the big holiday - not inviting your mum. Life is short. Id also offer the book a (much smaller) holiday with just you and her or perhaps all of you. Something like a weekend away so you have this to look forward to. My mum would immediately say no to this- fine it's her choice. I suspect yours might decline too.

I would also start the conversation about legal power of attorney with her if you suspect dementia - I have this and it has been so useful.

God your poor husband. Do you make him see her twice a week too?!

Sounds a lot like my mother. I made a conscious decision in regards to her behaviour and put in some firm boundaries, but over the next 5 years she continued to trample on them, so that combined with her also being a mean, nasty and rude bit%h to me when it suited her means we have no contact now and I will never ever have anything to do with her again. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but a lifetime of her behaving that way means she won’t change and only you can change your reaction to it or your tolerance of it.

Just run. She is playing victim. Just don’t buy into it - and definitely don’t take her on holiday.

OP if it weren’t for them different ages I’d be thinking you were my sister.

DO NOT TAKE HER ON HOLIDAY.

Unless you actually want to spend thousands of £ having a god awful time. Don’t even tell her you’re going until you need to.

I suspect that, like my mum who behaves likes she’s 95 when she’s actually 30 years younger, she is actually very clever and knows fine well what she’s doing.

Stop engaging with her if it bothers you. Leave her to it.
Honestly, you've really slagged her off.
Leave her be then.

Mum - I would love to go on holiday - just the two of us. Ill give you some dates. Can you book it?
She won’t.
Have a lovely holiday with your DC and DH. Live your life. Time passes quickly and the Years when the DC love to be with you and are excited (eg not teenagers) are short.
You would benefit from doing some research/buying a book about parents and boundaries. And then implementing them and following through when they are broken. Eg DH told his Dad over the phone that if he mentions his weight when we visit DH will immediately leave. It has largely worked.
it’s liberating

My late mum was like this DP, like yours widowed many years, stopped driving, wouldn’t catch the bus because she didn’t feel safe crossing the road to the bus stop. I wrote to the council asking if they’d consider putting a zebra crossing there, they wrote back saying it was a good idea but never did anything about it. I always felt so guilty going away without her, we did take her on a few cottage holidays and even a mini cruise. She was eventually diagnosed with dementia at 85 but looking back I realise she was having subtle symptoms earlier than that.

I think she has some mental health or depression issues but I also think you're very unpleasant about her. If you don't want to spend so much time with her, then don't, firm your boundaries, But also you could do with being nicer yourself.

Also you don’t tell her that you are going on holiday without her. That just causes friction.
Instead about two weeks before the lovely holiday (that you will go on and relax with your DH and Children) you say “Mum I can’t visit the weeks of x date and X date because DH has organized for us to go away. I know you will be happy for us to have some time to relax because DH has been so busy at work recently and needs a complete break. I’ll visit in x date and you can tell me all your news”
Its really sad it she does have the beginnings of dementia but it also doesn’t mean she should dominate your life. You children and your husband should be your priority as far
as family goes

Definitely don’t take her on holiday as you know exactly how it would be.
Just book it.
Feel the guilt, write it all out, and also write out why it won’t be a good idea. Writing it out helps you work it through in your mind.
As a last resort, get your husband to book it all (not including her) before you give in to her manipulation.
Also cut your visits down to once a week at the most - you have a busy life with two young children so once a week is more than sufficient.

Read up on parentification OP. You were exposed to completely inappropriate conversations (probably monologues) from your mother when you were a child. She has also installed FOG buttons in you, read up on Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

When my "mother" was a similar age to yours, I would also have called her "difficult". But now well into her 80s & I understand she is a full blown covert narcissist.
Have a good hard think. Have you ever gone against her, and how did she react? So long as I didn't step out of line I was a wonderful daughter. But if she was annoyed at me for some bizarre reason, I got the silent treatment until she felt I had been punished enough.

Not saying yours is anything as bad as mine, but your post rang bells. I wish I had been able to realise years ago how dysfunctional my family is & hate the idea of others suffering the same, so apologies if I'm seeing red flags that don't exist.

Yes, I imagine it does come across that way. But I think we all deserve to air our feelings and seek opinions from others on situations that cause us a lot of angst. I’m actually very, very accommodating with her in real life - I cook for her several times a week, take her shopping, fix anything in her house that needs sorting, do various bits of admin, and include her extensively in my children’s lives (for her benefit and not really mine).

It's really your Mum's choice not to do those things by herself. You really need to stop pandering to her (you should never have started but it's too late for recriminations now). Step back gradually and just be less available to do stuff so if she wants to do it then she has to do it by herself.
You have to prioritise your family so don't invite her on holiday.
She sounds like a black hole sucking the life out of everyone around her and infantalising herself. I can't be doing with people like this.

FGS, I’m sick of every single issue being put down to MH - some people are just dicks and it’s absolutely fine to be exhausted by emotional manipulation

You know you don t have to tell her about going on holiday if you don t want to. She s not entitled to know everything about your life. If you can’t get away with it tell her last minute.

She sounds like she will never be happy, whatever you do. It will never be enough for her.

With that in mind, decide how much time you are willing to give to her and stick to it, regardless of her complaints.

And no, don't take her on holiday. Things will go wrong, it will be stressful for everyone and you'll end up spending a lot of money to have a miserable time.

Mum - we’d love to take you, but if you don’t feel you’re able to ‘get the bus/drive/etc’ you won’t manage it.

my mother in law is similar, we take her away in the U.K. once a year for 3 days and she’s difficult, but she enjoys it

Yes, absolutely do not spoil your family holiday by taking her. Taking her away for a weekend on her own might be the best if you feel too guilty.

I completely disagree with the pp, she sounds like a total pain in the arse and I'm not suprised at all you don't want to take her on holiday.

Seeing her twice a week is plenty when she doesn't seem to be particularly pleasant company. Of course it's sad that your dad died bur you're not responsible for her social life.

My grandma was like this and honestly we don't see her or keep in touch following my mums death and she also fell our with my uncle's family. Just because you're related you don't have to be a martyr.

Was she a good mother to you and your sibling when you were younger?