The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

Interesting read in the guardian to day about how the real division on society isn't pensioners to youngsters but people who get inheritance and those that don't

That's where we should be looking for cash. Why should some people get hundreds of thousands and others nothing based on what wealth their parents parents parents earned

Is this something you've come up with all by yourself or is this a policy suggestion floating around somewhere?

Let rip with the divisive media attacks on the elderly.
What a nasty government this is.
Just pay ALL UK workers a decent , living wage you greedy, greedy people so that the dependence on universal credit , for example, is no longer necessary.
The cost of nursery care is ridiculous too. No one can go to work if it makes them worse off financially than staying at home and claiming benefits.

These things can be fixed if better policies are implemented.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain - actually I am a leftie but I am serious.

I support basic pensions for everyone. They should not be means tested. But equally, they should be basic. People live a long time. They have long working lives. I have a lot of sympathy for the young, starting out with a fraction of the support that I had and my parents did. They should get support for education and housing to build good lives. In return, you pay tax, build a good society and also build your own assets.

I do not agree with this narrative that people should not work hard during their working lives and not make something of themselves. That includes short of illness or disability, making something of yourself so that you do not enter retirement renting or with no other independent means. That is basically failing at life.

A single pensioner with no private pension gets under £10,000 with pension credit. Thousands of pensioners, usually single women, have a small private pension giving them a little more than that. How can anyone consider these people are well off?

OP,

My parents have also been fortunate, my generation is thus far comfortable, and as in your family the next one is having a harder time. But I don’t over-generalise and I don’t make the mistake of thinking that pitting the generations against each other is our only way out of this mess.

I think you will be surprised at the outgoings of pensioners as they get older

When they need help with cleaning , gardens , no longer safe to drive so need taxis ( assuming they don't live in London ), paying people to do jobs like decorating that they did for themselves in the past , when the recommended room temperature for an older person is much higher than for youngsters ? Never mind when they start to need personal help and care

And why should pensioners who paid into a system for life , who paid their dues, who lived and planned based on one set of rules ,get that taken away from them at the very point in their lives when they can least do any thing about it ?

*Appreciate that pensioner is a very wise age and health bracket

And the lowest income pensioners are topped up by pension credit etc so very few live on £10k a year.
I know I said I'd given up but FFS.
You get pension credit if you're on the old pension - of less than 10K and if you are very very poor.
YOU DON'T GET PENSION CREDIT on top of the £10 pension.

OP claims to be highly qualified but is either not understanding State Pensions or willfully misrepresenting them.

That. I'm with OP.

There was a post here a few weeks back saying you couldn't possibly live in London on less than £30K a year with a lot of London MNs implying that they were on salaries of £150K per year.

Imagine trying to live off a state pension of £10,5K a year?

Even if you are mortgage free, houses still need repairs, windows, boilers, roofs, etc.

I really don't think you'd get much disposable income out of £10.5K as it's a pittance!

You Dad isn't screwing the public sector, the Tory government is. I bet you a million pounds that if the triple lock is scrapped, whatever government does it won't suddenly be giving much more generous rises to public sector workers - as someone upthread pointed out, your contention on this is starting to resemble to millions on the side of that red bus.

Bravo - well said.

OP claims to be highly qualified but is either not understanding State Pensions or willfully misrepresenting them

I'm getting more and more suspicious about the agenda behind the entire thread.

When we were young we were always broke - massive mortgage, FT childcare costs, 2 cars needed for work, cleaner (due to long hours working). yes we earnt a lot but only ever had cheap holidays/food/clothing etc etc.

Arent most young people poor? Its only when you dont have these massive outlays that finances ease? And then allow you to save a bit for retirement?

I don't get the 'pensioners can't accrue income any other way so they need a good pension as it's their sole source of income,' argument.

Firstly, if they don't also have a private pension to supplement their state one then they should take some responsibility for that themselves. Nobody likes paying a percentage of their wages out when they could make good use of that money at the time - at least today's pensioners aren't also expected to pay an additional 9% of their pay towards their student loan as well as pension, tax and NI for the majority of their working lives.

Secondly, fine, maybe an 89 year old wouldn't be suited as a full time electrician or plumber. But I can't see why your average person in their late sixties who otherwise spends their time babysitting grandchildren several days a week (as most gp I know do!), going on cruises, walking the dog for miles, cycling, volunteering, doing U3A etc. couldn't possibly do an hour or two a day admin work, data entry/personal assistant stuff from home, take in ironing, sit behind a shop counter, dinner time supervision in schools, afterschool childcare, tutoring, piano lessons, freelance translation and copy writing...whatever they are good at. The world of work, the type of jobs open to people and where they can do them from isn't the same as it was even 5 years ago, let alone 50.

Obviously nobody should have to keep working forever if they don't need to, but a healthy person in their 60s-70s is much better placed to do 10-16 hours work a week if they need to than a single mother already working full time being expected to pick up a second job to pay the bills.

That's pretty nasty. People aren't jealous, just want the same opportunities as others have had. Having smartphones and avocados is no comparison to having a home of your own and not needing to worry about where you will live when you retire, and an eroding welfare state that wont help you either. Trust me, it is a concern that really hangs over me and causes deep anxiety so much that I can't enjoy life. I am trying to be responsible, I don't want bail outs. It is frustrating.

It is wrong to blame each other, we need to understand that different generations had their own challenges and we need to hold the right people to account.

Yes the balance is wrong. We need a triple lock for an education budget. Children services.

That's a triple lock I want

You say average pensioners have higher disposable income than workers - many still work, so have you deducted work income from this allegation and anyway where is the evidence they have higher disposable income? You seem bent on igniting the politics of envy, thankfully public policy is not made or altered by people like you.

Our joint pension is approx £1000 per month so definitely not living the high life.

No you cannot be an economist and seriously contend that there is a simple finite amount of money government has to spend and if it spent in one place it can't be spent in another - without giving consideration of the wider economic effects. Your version of economics is based on people exchanging stones - not the 21st century, as you must well know.

Exactly twix

And that's governments , businesses and the people behind them

Council houses kept the heat out of the housing market , gave you a decent home for an affordable rent so even if you couldn't buy you were safe

Selling them off started the problem- as now homes were income for private landlords competing with people who just wanted a home

I'd vote for any party that would go all out for council housing

There is absolutely no reason (other than political idealogy) why we can't do both. Either or is a false Tory premise which has been very well sold to many on this thread - they must be chuckling away at how easy it is.

The old age pension is not a benefit. The majority of people have contributed to their state pensions throughout their working lives. Those who have been in a position to have a work related pension subsequently then do not receive the full state pension so in your language it is already means tested at source.

state pension isn’t £10,000 a year in the UK. At most it’s £9,600 and many don’t receive that amount. We have the lowest state pension of the developed world according to the OECD. I wonder if you will still like the idea of pensioners living in poverty when you are approaching retirement age.

I am nowhere near pensionable age. I feel sorry that you are carrying around so much bitterness. They were likely working from a much younger age than you ever did and did not have the benefit of the education or general stand of living that you enjoyed as a young person. Life and society goes in cycles. If you were born and brought up to believe that you would have certain things in life, how would you feel if they were taken away toward the end your life and that society would be very reluctant to let you 'contribute' anyway.