The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

www.jrf.org.uk/data?f%5B0%5D=field_taxonomy_poverty_indicator%3A915

This from the Joseph Rowntree foundation shows the rates of poverty for different groups.

Pensioners have had the lowest rates of poverty for the past 10 years when compared to children, working adults and families.

There are pension credits for pensioners who are in poverty, but those who are wealthy should not be accepting benefits such as Winter fuel payment that they do not need.

Intergenerational unfairness needs to be addressed.

good luck to them, but what about the pensioners who worked until mid 60s, have no private pension and are still renting? Dont these people exist or are they all rich?

I would just like someone competent running the Treasury and HMRC. With added statisticians and IT experts.

I cannot see why even with UK population levels we cannot work out at what level to target winter fuel allowance, bus and rail passes and pension levels. However, when it came to ?childcare allowances? the government cocked up by not differentiating between a single parent earning x and two parents earning 2 times x.

The state pension is not a benefit. It's been paid for through tax and national insurance throughout someone's working life. If you're going to complain, get your facts right. £10,000 a year is not a lot to live on. Poorly paid people fighting amongs themselves is exactly what this government wants to distract from how much they and their cronies take from the pot.

Agitate for fair taxes and to end tax avoidance instead. That would bring in a massive amount of money that would improve so much of our public services.

Once our state pension is no longer the laughing stock amongst advanced nations (per my previous posts) your idea will be worth considering, OP.

In the meantime your cherry picked facts (including the selective use of anecdote and private pension comparators) do not make for rigorous argument. The bottom line is that everyone is currently being screwed except the very rich, who are getting richer.

Maybe thats why the triple lock is necessary, the starting amount for pensioners is massively low

Which is my point, that the % increase for a pensioner isn't on an income that's the same as a nurse's to start with.

Its not a difficult concept... pensioner on basic pension and little or no private provision, say 12k in total VS with a total income of 65k....

Who do YOU think needs the higher pension increase?

Who decides the boundaries...? Govt... answerable to the electorate, as the decide pretty much everything else...

Aside, this thread is like the VAT on school fees one, people defending the rights of the very wealthy over the poor.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain are you serious? Pensioners have had their whole working lives to not be in poverty, not be renting.

If you have got to retirement and have made nothing more of yourself, then a basic income is fine, but not more.

Let's not race to the bottom. Let's do better at lifting pay and benefits instead so everyone has enough to live on. (older, still working, public sector so no full state pension for me).

The state pension will be £203.50 next year, so £10,560 per year for those who have met the thresholds. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9680/#:~:text=The%20full%20rates%20for%202023,£141.85%20in%202022%2F23.

I think from now on it should increase in line with average earnings.

I am astonished so many people think that pensions should increase faster than earnings indefinitely. Why?

Many pensioners worked and brought up children in exactly the same level of poverty as many families do today. My parents both worked and struggled on low pay and high mortgage costs. They and we went without foreign holidays and any luxuries, and as far as I'm concerned they've earned the right to their TL.

I think this is definitely a vote winner amongst older people. Young people need to vote more and politicians might support them a bit more.

i think it needs means testing to an extent. It isnt fair that some families are working full time and freezing in their homes while a retired person who is very wealthy gets a lot of help from the state. This would be difficult though. I would maybe keep the state pension at a certain level while providing additional support through another benefit (which might already exist).

Pensions should go up in line with wage growth. At the moment civil servants teachers and nurses are not getting triple locked pay increases.

DH and I have worked all our lives and paid our taxes. We are not well off, we are too old to supplement our pensions with paid work (and who employs elderly people anyway?)
A decent pension isn't too much to ask. Stop bashing us.

pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year

Are you claiming working couples earn a total below 20 K per annum?

6% of pensioners private rent. 16% social rent. 4% have a mortgage. 74% own outright.
Just for some perspective.

Not all pensioners are home owners, 10k would be eaten up by rent and other bills quite quickly I think

If you have got to retirement and have made nothing more of yourself, then a basic income is fine, but not more

I'm going to assume you aren't being deliberately offensive there and worded it clumsily. I'm not personally in poverty, no. But millions are. Are you actually saying that if someone 'didn't make more of themselves' then they deserve a poor old age on a basic income?

Right back to the Victorian playbook, if you're poor when you're old it's your own fault.

I'm glad I'm seeing posts where everyone is warning other people not to fight amongst themselves for the scraps, when the wealthy dine on lobster and get away with it. This time last year I was banging my head against a brick wall on here as people just weren't getting it. We've been pitted against each other for years.

The comparison is not between a state pension and no state pension, but a policy where pensions grow in line with earnings (Single Lock) or where pensioner incomes continually increase faster than average (Triple Lock).

My Dad worked his whole life and is very comfortable in retirement. His grandkids are struggling and need the pay rise more (public sector workers).

My mother worked and only gets £8840 pa. Obviously doesnt meet the 'threshold'. Teachers starting salary is £28,000, nurses similar. My DM was a nurse all her working life.

So tell my why my DM should remain in poverty?
Its disingenuous to talk about 5% in line with average earnings when earnings are 3 times higher than pensions?

And being jealous of pensioners, of them having a home is such an ugly look on here

Yes everyone deserves a home

But expecting them to sell up and move hundreds of miles away to a small flat or better still die and leave inheritance what I see in a lot of these threads

Your dad doesnt represent all pensioners many of whom live in poverty

It's brought out the usual suspects, that's for sure.

Comparison is with disposable income. Working households have higher outgoings than pensioner households due to childcare, mortgage etc.

And the lowest income pensioners are topped up by pension credit etc so very few live on £10k a year.

But fine for a policy targeted at those who need it, not for a blanket policy which says all pensioners should get a better pay rise than workers over time.