The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

*care

I think this is why pre-death gifting will happen increasingly.

True. But that has to be at least 7 years before death to be exempt.

I guess, as the old saying goes: "those who pay inheritance tax distrust their family more than they hate the taxman", because it's a completely optional tax to pay really. It's strange anybody would put themselves in a position to have their money that's been taxed already taxed again at 40% when it's completely avoidable. But many people do!

Some people really do not think logically, I guess. Which explains many of the other comments earlier in the thread as well.

Yes, we did the same for our 2 ACs about 9 years ago. After I received an inheritance, which I paid a lot of IHT on, we paid off their mortgages, so they own their houses outright.

We thought it was pointless making them wait until we'd shuffled off, and then lumber them with IHT.

Luckily we have lived for the requisite 7 years now lol 👍

When we die, I've got no idea how much will be left for them - that will very much depend on whether we ever need care etc.

But that has to be at least 7 years before death to be exempt

Smaller gifts aren't subject to this; annual amounts or three-yearly rolling total limits are allowed in Australia. I'm sure much the same obtains in the UK.

My father worked in a factory, my mum only worked part time once my sister and I were both at school. He was able to buy a house and support a family on one wage for a long time (60s/70s).
When I started work in the early 80s you got two pay rises a year...a cost of living rise to match inflation and a pay rise. Then some clever person came out with the wheeze of 'performance related pay' which effectively meant that they didn't have to give you a pay rise at all if they didn't want to.
How did we let them get away with all this? The gap between the lowest paid in an organisation and the highest keeps getting bigger. My old boss used to get a £20 million bonus every year.
We visited Port Sunlight in Liverpool (other examples are available) last year. A whole town built by an employer for his workers. Can you imagine Jeff Bezos or whoever doing something like that now? His workers have to pee in bottles because they don't get proper timed breaks.
Something has gone badly wrong in the last 40-odd years.
We should be on the streets.

We should be on the streets. But they've made that illegal now.

So because things were shit that justifies them remaining shit and we should inflict this on more children needlessly when now there are policy choices available - as I set out earlier in the thread - that would largely avoid anybody else having to endure this? Why would you not want that to happen?

There it is again. The shift. From Boomers had it so great so well just because you had it shit doesn't mean everyone else has to. Neither of which are anything other than a projection, not what has been said, not reality. I find it REALLY difficult to believe that is what you took from that post! Stupid of me as personal experiences of such stuff, that run contrary to the current zeitgeist about "older people" just doesn't allow for a reasoned discussion of it. It always gets turned into personal bollocks, like that. Never any understanding, never a "Fucking hell no wonder Granny and Grandad have such a low bar"

What you set out earlier in the thread is wishful thinking. A kid's Christmas list. You think "Tell 'em and they'll do it cos they are public servants" is a plan? And again, I told you, there are 800+ posts, at the time I said I'd go back and read your input. I went back 400 of them, no further. Your have consistently posted variations of that wishlist and the exclamation that is would be "Simples!"

The point - as simply as I can make it - is that what is happening today is shit. But people will survive it, will adapt, will find new ways to Make Do and Mend that meet the needs of the 21st Century. Guess who has many of the skills required? Boomers and their kids, because we lived through similar and are more than willing to pass on knowledge, skills etc. Well, we would be if it weren't or the constant vitriol, as evidenced here, that in the last decade or so of our lives we, your parents, grandparents, aunts uncles etc, have the temerity to be in a better position than we were 30 years ago and haven't yet died and passed on the Midas Millions you imagine we are all sitting on.

Stop moaning and start doing! And yes, I know. I've been on these threads before "How can we do... it's not fair because Boomers... Tories... you have no idea..."

Well fine. You rant and rail. Convince yourself that anyone over the age of what 55? has had their intellect, their compassion, their ability to recognise yet another period of severe economic distress removed.

I'll carry on helping those who want to be helped and don't look at me and blame me and people like me for global politics, Covid, the fact they were born in the UK not some other magical country (France was it?) that does so much better, their personal choices, the weather, the fact their cat chooses to live down the road with a nicer family and the reality that Santa Claus is a move not a real person!

Exasperating doesn't cover it!

The 21st century has reinvented robber barons. We just have to hope the pendulum swings back soon.

You're so hyperbolic.
Expecting people to roll over and accept a shit hand because someone else had it shitter is stupid. Nobody ever wins at the misery olympics.

@ElephantMeetRoom in the context of her first post on the topic of free uni education, which I have already quoted, @Willyoujustbequiet was referring to the benefit for the individual. There has been a lot of reframing and morphing of her original text in subsequent posts.

I have never said anything to lead anyone to suppose I fail to understand the benefit to society (I am a Russell Group STEM academic). I regard the question as separate from the one being considered here, which is about advantages for the individual.

You're so hyperbolic.
Expecting people to roll over and accept a shit hand because someone else had it shitter is stupid. Nobody ever wins at the misery olympics.

You are STILL not listening!

No, im listening. I'm just not agreeing.

Not agreeing with what? Specifically? Because I don't think you have heard me at all!

Then what are you saying?

I am not sure I can explain that so you would understand. We seem to be fairly well divided by the nature of t'internet. I think I am talking a life philosophy when many here are still demanding solutions. Solutions that simply do not, cannot exist in our lifetimes.

1. The financial fiasco that upon us has been visible for about 10 years
2. It's global, or at least Westernised. Brexit and Covid are not the cause, nor is any one government. They are exacerbating issues but this is the reality of life - boom and bust, swings and roundabouts
3. 10 years is not a long time. Nor is 20. Nearing 60 I have a completely different perspective than I had a 20, 30 or 40. When I too was one of those railing at my elders - I thought they were clueless and out of touch too
4. All those "Don't spend so much on mobile phones, tv contracts, coffee" posts that have been much reviled were an older generation trying to point out at the greatest savings are made in lost of small changes. That is the greatest of those "clueless and out of touch" misunderstandings. The generation before us said "Cut your coat according to your cloth" , simple economics when banks didn't lend much to ordinary people.
5. Don't rely on any external agency to 'save' you. They won't. Politic away (I have done for the whole of my life) but always remember that the politicians look at the country as a whole, within larger contexts. We are all simply units of currency, adding or subtracting from the Government pot. That's how they make policies
6. The only way you can maintain yourself is to do it yourself. At some point you have to stop railing against "The Man" and start looking at what you can actually do - I would say back to phones, television and coffee, but that ship probably sailed a few years ago!

And yes. I know. I can hear you hissing at me. There are a few more points that would have you screaming. But the main point is that the older generations know exactly what you are talking about. We have lived through it a few times and fully understand that, if we live long enough, we will live through this downturn and maybe even a couple more.

Our solutions sound alien to you because of the absolutely gobsmacking developments over the last few decades. The world is literally at your fingertips, many cannot remember a time when that has not been true, Global consumerism is normal, we all rely upon in, from governments down to each of us as individuals.

Taking me back to that first philosophy vs expectations point. I can see how much is far far better now and will remain better, at a very basic level, for the vast majority* even in the very depths of this next financial crash. Why? Because I was born into the tail end of one that happened before the world had recovered from a war.

Every decade of my life has had recessions, multiple ones in every decade.

The "Great Recession" of 2008 restructured so much that banking, lending changed so drastically that people now have forgotten what led to those changes. Think they, like incredibly low interest rates are 'normal'. They aren't. Consumerism and an opening in banking /lending policies, a world that relies more upon services and leisure, commodities than ever before. Something that further divides us all by age ad leads back to that phones, tvs and coffees thing!

*I work in a group for community charities that work on helping those who fall outside that measure.

That's what some are concerned about....as we all should be but others seem to think the older generation don't now and never had hard ...in reality most moaning have only just started to feel the pinch and many went on holiday last year. I wonder how many busily saying all pensioners are rich....which is not true....actually give regular donations to food banks, how many are wearing clothes that are 10 years old etc ...and how many have yet to really feel the struggle between food and heat I'm guessing the op hasn't got to poverty level yet

It may be unacceptable if you aren't old enough to remember hard times, and it's unpalatable even when you do, but recessions happen to every generation. Gordon Brown may have declared an end to boom and bust, but guess what -- he was proved wrong in 2008.

@SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth

Reading through what you ve written a couple of times, i doubt very much you have lived through any downturn at all, at least fortunate not to have been affected.

The issues facing the younger generation are far harder than previous post war generations had too... but you can't see any of that...

A total lack of compassion shines through your rant.

What a bizarre post.

I expect nothing from my parents. I've supported myself financially since I was 16 years old. I earn a six figure income even with the limitations of being a lone parent. I am certainly not willing my parents to die. And as pointed out to you several times already, I am one of the posters who posted in support of increasing the state pension. What I said was that older people and younger people should stop attacking each other and both support policies that will help the other because it doesn't have to be either/ or. Many of the policies I suggested would be self-funding because of the gains that they create, which is why lots of other kore sensible countries already have those policies in place. So I'm not clear why you believe they are so impossible to enact on this side of the channel, or indeed why you have directed this rant at me.

How on Earth can anybody make rational policy choices without weighing up both benefits to individuals and to society as a whole? Surely that's self-evident?

Have to start paying for all these handouts at some point. The retirement age will almost certainly go up next year.

Exactly. It's not much to ask that older people recognise that the struggles facing the younger generation today are unprecedented. Study upon study has shown this.

That's not to say that general standards of living - inside bathrooms, central heating etc - haven't improved because quite obviously they have and it's beyond tiresome to have this trotted out repeatedly.

But the fact of the matter is the 2008 + Covid + Brexit + Ukraine + climate disaster mean that young people now face insoluble problems and the lifestyles achievable for people on average salaries a generation ago are completely out of reach now. And yes, it is utterly tone deaf @SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth for people to bang on about Netflix or avocados or phone contracts etc when none of that would make even the slightest difference to the situation.

Some older people are really struggling. It would be nice if the type of older people who've been posting these rants would realise that many, many younger people are, too. And it's not because they don't work hard or have a mobile phone or whatever. It's because the goalposts have been moved in a way that makes it impossible for them to achieve what their parents did, with similar careers. And while I'm fortunate personally to have a lucrative job, it's not possible to create an economy where everyone earns above average by definition. So something needs to be done to make it possible for those people to also have a decent life. I'm not sure how you can really argue with that.

I suggested some sensible policies to achieve that, without doing any harm to pensioners, based on what has been proved to be effective in other countries. You may disagree with my suggestions. However, you've given no reason why you disagree with them/ believe they wouldn't work here when they work perfectly well elsewhere, or indeed suggested any alternatives.

Instead we get this crazy ranting.

@ElephantMeetRoom the question of social policy is simply beyond the scope of OP’s question, which was sufficiently complex. It is very interesting but not on point for this discussion, IMO. Opinions on that may of course vary legitimately