The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

I know, don’t you want to be a fly on the wall in thirty or forty years time and hear the wailing?

I am 71, so a pensioner on a fixed income. I worked full time for 44 years, no children and have never claimed a thing so yes, I do feel entitled to take my pension.. Let me ask you this Flamm, it the boot was on the other foot would you still ask this question. I don't think so!

Because the nations finances simply cannot cope? Truss cost the UK £30bn, 30bn we will never see again.

A 40% tax paying pensioner will and always would have been far better off then if they had not "aspired"

They don't need the money from a shrinking pot... others do...

I have paid tax and NI all my working life and deserve my pension . If it’s enough to live on I can give up work and an employment opportunity arises for you youngsters who have all the answers .Plus for those that do have a private pension top up they have paid for that as well .

They don't need the money from a shrinking pot... others do

Oh that magic word 'need' again. Who gets to decide that?

I bet Flamm isn't turning any pension rises down when they come along.

See here from the Telegraph on higher disposable incomes for pensioner households than working households. Good on them, but why should the gap increase further?

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/06/22/how-pensioners-disposable-income-has-risen-nearly-1000-workers/

the tired old tropes about old people all being Tories.

Don't forget too that the dimbos think that all the 'old people' voted for Brexit yet out of my wide circle of 'old people' only one did!

Actually, as a mum, who is worried about the prospects for their kids, I’d rather DD’s salary as an aspiring junior doctor be increased more than my pension.

I’d also rather that teachers got paid more so that my (hypothetical) grandkids had a better future.

But each to their own.

I'm hoping that all these people are stuffing as much as they can into private pensions so nurses can have pay rises; and that they refuse to take the SP on the grounds that there are more deserving causes.

Totally agree. Triple lock needs to go.
It’s just too much in the current climate.
And the welfare being chucked at pensioners like fuel subsidies and free travel needs to be means tested, just like most welfare for working age people is. Nobody minds giving free stuff to poor pensioners, but a quarter of today’s pensioners own a million or more in assets - they don’t need all these freebies.

Yes - they'd be fucked in this thread where anecdotes are taken as fact because the oldest people in my circle of friends and family were the remain voters - with the youngest at 19 being a brexit voter.

The state pension is a pathetic sum per year. Inflation linking is sensible. Ultimately all those who will draw a pension will benefit.

There are other issues on spending like housing benefit which need tackling more. Education and investment in the young.

Pensioners have had their whole lives to make mlnd. Basic pension yes, but other top ups no. Social care costs, those should be paid privately.

According to a report on the website This is Money (Aug 2021) a recent OECD study shows that the UK state pension is at the bottom of the league table of advanced countries in terms of replacement of net average income, at 28%. Last place. (I can’t link on my phone.). Fuel allowances, free TV licences (which may not continue anyway), transport discounts, etc, do not total more than a few hundred ££ on top for the pensioners I know, and other countries offer similar arrangements, or their own. So they should not be brought into the mix.

When we move out of this sorry position I will be more receptive to OP’s views.

But you have totally fallen for the Tories' ridiculous tale that someone has to have shit and it's just a matter of who. Why aren't you asking why Pay of FTSE 100 chief executives rose an average of 23% in 2022? How is that fair?

Yes, link either to inflation or average earnings, but not a magic formula that means pensions increase on average by faster than either. The formula means that other public spending needs to be cut.

I wonder if you'll agree with your sentiment when you reach retirement age?

The only pensioners I know living it large are those with executive level private pensions with on final salary.

Do you really think that trying to live off less than £10K a year is going to allow for a great deal of disposable income?

OK, scrap the triple lock and link to the average increase in CEO pay for the FTSE100? That seems fair eh?

Brava, @WatchoRulo

The formula means that other public spending needs to be cut.
You can't be an actual economist.

Compared to other countries the U.K. has a more extensive system of private pensions, so just comparing state pensions is not comparable.

The question is still, why should pensions always increase on average by more than earnings? There is clearly a point where it is unsustainable. What do you think that point should be?

I'd be up for that

Other spending only needs to be cut if you accept the Tories’ premisses. Are you really a trained economist, OP?

I'm beginning to suspect the same

Tbh the Government can inflation link and will, but it depends who wins the next election.

Plus it's a mad government that would keep the triple lock given the numbers of pensioners we will have in the next ten years.

It will be changed - you can already see HMT looking at the age of it being given.