To be utterly fed up of what UK workplace culture has become?

[ExpectationManagementCharm]

I'm a middle manager in a large UK firm. I am not a new manager; and I'm not young, late 30s. I am generally perceived to be at the "laid back"/supportive end of the management spectrum (but I'll fight tooth and nail for one of my team if I think they're being asked unreasonable stuff/being treated unfairly).
However, I'm tearing my hair out at being at the "crunch point" of upper level expectations to get on and deliver stuff vs. how my more junior employees expect to work these days. I'm so exhausted and getting no support from anyone. I can no longer see if it's just my workplace or the norm.

Example1: Junior staff expecting to not dial into team meetings beacuse of trivial reasons - some of which are downright unprofessional (i have my weekly run with a PT booked then- but this is within normal work office hours e.g. 2pm on a Thursday). While my HR policy states that I need to be "flexible" for personal reasons, which means I then need to follow up separately with that person each time. Result - less work for employee, HR is happy, senior management say no problem, more work for me.

Example 2: Junior staff (especially our newly graduated colleagues) expecting to be able to get out of (reasonable) work deadlines by using the word "anxiety" all the time. "I couldn't deliver a client item/I was feeling anxious" (meaning I had to pull an all nighter to get it finished to meet our deadline). I try and escalate to HR - but I need to be "understanding". Result - employee's piss poor performance slides, HR are happy, senior management say no problem (because client delivery didn't suffer), I get to work an all nighter to cover the gap.

These are multiple examples, across lots of team members over the last ~ 5 years, but it's definitely got worse over the last year or so. The concept of "my word is my oath"/reliablility seems to have completely gone out of the window.

Yet my employer's HR team just turn it back on me as a team manager to manage, leading to more work, which means I just have another thing to do.

I'm currently pursuing performance improvement plans with 2 of my team at the moment, whose hiring i was not involved in, and i'm going mad trying to fit in what HR expect (to follow the process) alongside juggling my own actual workload. I'm not just a people manager, yet HR seem to think i have free time to spend doing delicate, intensive people management activity, despite my already crushing workload.

Does anyone else recongnise this or is it time to look for a new employer?

FWIW, i love my team (in general) but the recent piss taking has really taken its toll - I feel like no one at work has my back at all.

This is good advice

I was a middle manager on the RAF until fairly recently. One of the key drivers in my leaving (there were many) was the issues that you describe. And that was with the supposed advantage of military discipline in my handbag. Similar to you, the welfare card was played frequently purely because the individual knew they could and would be fully supported by the HR system. Of course, the burden then fell on others who quite often had genuine welfare issues, but we’re trying to not let them interfere with work.

I agree with the other posters though, who said play the system at their own game and join them. I didn’t, and it was to my cost.

How does this sort of thing happen in the armed services?

The mental health/anxiety etc excuses frustrate me. We are labeling everything as mental health issues these days. Ie the employee who couldn't deliver because of his/her anxiety; feeling anxious is a completely normal human feeling, we deal with it, we get on. Of course there are people out there with genuine clinical anxiety, but I'd guess the majority of those who "suffer with anxiety" are simply those who get anxious about stuff from time to time.

This is what happens when we teach young people that all their anxious feelings/feeling a little low are mental health disorders. We really need to stop medicalising the normal range of human feelings and experiences.

Yep, and being expected to do the job you’re paid for = toxic workplace 🤦🏼‍♀️

No you’re just a lazy fucker who is disappointed that the person who pays your wages expects something in return.

I’m generally a fan of hybrid working but the wfh culture is only exacerbating this, which I have also noticed is a common pattern in the last couple of years. Young people apparently need to see older and more senior staff physically working next to them in order to realise that picking up your phone every five minutes, and actually getting your head down sometimes, is what’s needed. I’m not a fan of presenteeism but it’s junior staff who are shafted ultimately from constantly working from home. They need to learn from senior colleagues how to operate in a workplace and not think that loafing about in a spare bedroom with frequent breaks to go for a run is normal professional culture.

There is a fine line between having boundaries and not sacrificing yourself for a job, and being an entitled slacker who thinks the world owes them a living. Based on my experience we’re seeing a lot more of the latter, dressed up as the former.

Ultimately you get out what you put in and in a few years time it’s pretty easy to see which of the grads I work with will be successful and which won’t.

Have you sat down face to face with someone senior in HR and hashed out a list of what is appropriate and not appropriate for “well being”? PT appointments are obviously not.

You and HR need to be firm about what is within boundaries of appropriate (sickness, emergencies etc) and everything else has be run by you.

End of.

Telling people who are shit at their jobs, that they’re shit at their jobs = bullying nowadays

1. your workplace is not reflective of all UK workplaces
2. not sure if your line management skills are clear. You need to lay clear ground rules and expectations regardless if HR support you.
3. similar note you need to engage with your junior members and find a common ground. You have 100% flexibility and you need to make it work rather than piling stress on yourself.
4. Nothing wrong wit being 100% true in performance reviews but need to make sure you have documented all instances and stay professional.
5. Always look for an exit strategy and treat this is a positive learning experience

Why would you think the armed services are particularly different to the rest of society? They’re not usually progressive, they tend to follow behind (in my experience 5-10 years from the latest practices), but ultimately tend to fall in line. In fact ‘civvy street’ is often used as an aspirational example for policies etc, and significant effort is made to emulate it.

Sometimes that’s a good thing, as there are still a lot of aspects of service life that can be described as archaic, and a more modern approach is long overdue. But usually, it’s the opposite, and the unique advantages of the forces way of doing things are frequently undervalued and eroded, to the detriment of it and those who are serving.

Ok with all due respect, how would they cope then underbattle field conditions, I play, warzone 2 call of duty, when being shoot at I'm mildly under stress to stay alive, if I was in real combat, id be pickling my self.

And please do not give them fantastic references to aid their escape. I know people who have done this and it just means that complete incompetents are promoted. Thus causing even greater issues.

How is having no core hours supposed to work, in a workplace that requires meetings? Without core hours, surely someone could declare they're working from 5pm - 1am and never cross paths with anyone.

If the company advertises 100% flexibility, I don't think an employee is wrong to book external appointments during the day. They may have deliberately chosen a workplace which allows that. But if the policy isn't working, it needs to be changed (I appreciate you can't change it yourself!)

I suppose I imagined they would have a tougher culture and attract tougher people. I didn't expect them to be especially "progressive" in that sense, plus I don't imagine there's much scope for hybrid or home working (did things change much over lockdown?). Which is why I was wondering how the kinds of behaviour being discussed here could have seeped in. If you like a soft amd flexible working environment, why on earth would you join the military?

I've no experience or knowledge of it at all, which is why I'm interested to hear about it.

Your workplace is not reflective of all, as noted above.

The issue with new graduates in some cases perhaps reflects the fact that the 50% target of those going to university is a mistake.

Heaven forbid, Et land's at ten downing street ect

I understand you completely OP and have experienced this. I recently didn’t get a promotion which (in my humble opinion!) I was the best candidate for, because in a role play task I was too mean. The scenario was someone I managed had missed key deadlines. I told them I was disappointed but listened and gently coached them into solutions. The person watching said they were ‘taken aback’ by my uncaring approach. Yet these are the same people who expect you to drive up standards. It’s bizarre.

In some ways the many many responses on here blaming you in some way nicely demonstrate the problem! You do realise over time that middle management is just soaking up the incompetence from all levels as best you can for as long as you can!

The short answer is, they don’t. A lot of them become what’s known as ‘downgraded’, either for medical or welfare reasons. This means that they can’t deploy abroad, or undertake certain onerous duties in the UK, like guard duty, which means the burden falls more heavily on others.

They can stay downgraded for a significant amount of time, before the slow process to have them discharged starts ticking. That can go on for months. Near the end, then all of a sudden there is a change in circumstances and they do what’s needed to get fully deployable again. Until they’re warned about deploying, and then the cycle starts again, only for a different reason this time. This can literally go on for years. All the while, they are paid at the same rate as their deployable (and deploying) colleagues.

There are good reasons why their wages aren’t reduced, but it does cause understandable disgruntlement amongst the rest. And no disincentive to the individual for this behaviour.

I manage a team. We have an agile working policy and work, in the main, from home.

I do not see this as a problem. My team attend meetings if I request they do so. I am very laid back in my management style, in my opinion 😬 But I absolutely will not tolerate any piss-taking.

I lead with ‘fiery red energy’ (so I’ve been told from a leadership course), so I think this helps.

Haha - yes - personal training is a bit different from physiotherapy. But I think the same principle can hold - if it is a regular thing in the calendar, then why not? Unless you are manning a helpline or something, is it a big deal? They can catch up on work later. I suppose the issue is whether there is enough common time among the team to accomodate meetings and how short notice these might be.

I’m a junior - from my perspective deadlines can be unrealistic and don’t build in uncertainty. Often they expect too much work for the team size and time given. It’s a manager’s job to communicate the mismatch in expectations to higher ups and clients. Either they can allocate more people onto the project or they extend the time given or they risk the project not being done on time. no one wants to hear this - they just want pie in the sky unrealistic stuff - then they tell u off if u don’t make it…

I would accept it if the people imposing these deadlines knew the work involved - but it’s not always the case. PS - I don’t mind putting in out of hours work IF I get flexibility to do PT or whatever during the day.

It is difficult OP. And I’m like you, I am the ‘you attract more flies with honey’ camp of management and that definitely works the majority of the time for me. My team feel respected and supported but occasionally people over step the mark. We have got stricter with performance improvement plans, and like you when you’re dealing with health related issues it can be hard, I have in my armour the fact I have a very serious health issue and I don’t use it as an excuse, so I can tell people I sympathise, but after all they are not working for nothing, we expect output. I’ve got tougher over time as like you I’ve been the one left to stay up half the night getting stuff done and that’s driven me to push back more and not be as soft.

Very similar issues here and HR unwilling to deal with poor performance via performance improvement plans or probationary periods.

It’s all on the manager. I’m expected to be a manager, a teacher (teaching basic spelling and maths), a mental health nurse, a mum and a babysitter.

I made some good hires luckily and this is slowly shifting the balance towards higher performance. Been an awfully stressful year. I’m tired, frustrated and … interviewing for a role in a smaller, performance-driven company.

I feel for you.

Advice is to pursue the improvement plans, stick to your guns, document everything (including your hours) and above all, look after yourself. Do speak to HR and make yourself as much as a PITA as your staff.

i agree with this but reading between the lines I’d say OP would get their arse kicked for the failure of their team

I’m 43. Desperate for a job. Never have anxiety!!!

I’ll work for you!

I wish. I wish I could get employed. I’d never do that kind of stuff. But I’m 43. People don’t want me.

I’m 51 and suffer anxiety attacks occasionally and also going through menopause and have an under active thyroid. I don’t expect a free pass for not doing work or being forgetful but since covid I’ve noticed my anxiety can get worse sometimes.

I feel like I missed out here - work world seems to be so easy now but it was incredibly tough before I went freelance

The idea of no core hours just stuns me. Where do I get a job like this?! And anxiety as an excuse for missing a deadline? Amazing.