To be utterly fed up of what UK workplace culture has become?

[ExpectationManagementCharm]

I'm a middle manager in a large UK firm. I am not a new manager; and I'm not young, late 30s. I am generally perceived to be at the "laid back"/supportive end of the management spectrum (but I'll fight tooth and nail for one of my team if I think they're being asked unreasonable stuff/being treated unfairly).
However, I'm tearing my hair out at being at the "crunch point" of upper level expectations to get on and deliver stuff vs. how my more junior employees expect to work these days. I'm so exhausted and getting no support from anyone. I can no longer see if it's just my workplace or the norm.

Example1: Junior staff expecting to not dial into team meetings beacuse of trivial reasons - some of which are downright unprofessional (i have my weekly run with a PT booked then- but this is within normal work office hours e.g. 2pm on a Thursday). While my HR policy states that I need to be "flexible" for personal reasons, which means I then need to follow up separately with that person each time. Result - less work for employee, HR is happy, senior management say no problem, more work for me.

Example 2: Junior staff (especially our newly graduated colleagues) expecting to be able to get out of (reasonable) work deadlines by using the word "anxiety" all the time. "I couldn't deliver a client item/I was feeling anxious" (meaning I had to pull an all nighter to get it finished to meet our deadline). I try and escalate to HR - but I need to be "understanding". Result - employee's piss poor performance slides, HR are happy, senior management say no problem (because client delivery didn't suffer), I get to work an all nighter to cover the gap.

These are multiple examples, across lots of team members over the last ~ 5 years, but it's definitely got worse over the last year or so. The concept of "my word is my oath"/reliablility seems to have completely gone out of the window.

Yet my employer's HR team just turn it back on me as a team manager to manage, leading to more work, which means I just have another thing to do.

I'm currently pursuing performance improvement plans with 2 of my team at the moment, whose hiring i was not involved in, and i'm going mad trying to fit in what HR expect (to follow the process) alongside juggling my own actual workload. I'm not just a people manager, yet HR seem to think i have free time to spend doing delicate, intensive people management activity, despite my already crushing workload.

Does anyone else recongnise this or is it time to look for a new employer?

FWIW, i love my team (in general) but the recent piss taking has really taken its toll - I feel like no one at work has my back at all.

My experience of this is that the middle manager is expected to bend over backwards to do all the performance management process and handhold/supervise to the nth degree, with no support to actually deliver on their own work. There is no backfill to cover the increasing demands on middle managers to support their teams, or recognition of the toll it takes on the poor sods in the middle.

I’d give them a written warning

YANBU. Yes. I recognise that OP.

But the newly graduated inducted into the world of work need to actually learn what it means to be professional as part of the work setting, what is appropriate or not appropriate. At the end of the day, the piss taking takes a toll on the overall performance of the team and the managers and the company, and in an ideal world a manager is only as successful as their team, and the manager should be able to pick, choose lose or restructure the team members.

"I couldn't deliver a client item/I was feeling anxious" (meaning I had to pull an all nighter to get it finished to meet our deadline). I try and escalate to HR - but I need to be "understanding". Result - employee's piss poor performance slides, HR are happy, senior management say no problem (because client delivery didn't suffer), I get to work an all nighter to cover the gap.

So it’s okay for junior staff to work an unpaid all nighter but not you?

I’m actually glad this work-into-the-ground culture is dying. Some people still seem to think there’s something about being under 30/35 that means you should work yourself into the ground to prove yourself.
Employers have been taking the piss for a long time.
During my career it went from expecting graduates to work for a year for free under the guise of not being fully qualified; even though they had already done 1 full degree. This culture is massively changing and rightly so. Some practices still try this but luckily they are being named and shamed in the industry.

Frankly i think people who claim 80% or all gen a have anxiety and can’t maintain a normal job are talking shite and it’s just another ‘youth of today’ rant.
For decades civil service is crippled by people going on long term sick due to stress, no link to gen z there so that doesn’t fit the narrative though.

If someone is requesting specific accommodation for a health condition and/or disability, it is absolutely the job of HR to carry out assessments and work out a reasonable accommodation plan. The key word is reasonable.

If an employee is approaching their manager to say, "I can't do x because of [health issue]" then it's something the manager should forward to you for a proper assessment and accommodation plan. Managers cannot quiz people about confidential medical issues and then make up solutions on the fly.

What MXVIT says. Lots of my team are under 25. They have zero concept of what it means to have a job, arrive on time, do what they are asked to do, take responsibility, be pro active. I spend half my work life managing their emotional crises. They can't seem to get a grip at all.

I hear this all the time from DH. His younger colleagues are constantly complaining about the workload, anxiety etc etc He wfh so I can hear them on zoom calls moaning away. They’re well paid in a not particularly stressful industry. I wonder how they would have coped with working conditions in days of yore…
Conversely though I can’t write off a whole generation. I work with a lot of young fresh grads who are all brilliant, so hardworking and generally nice to be around. We have a 22 year old in our team who we’ve already promoted to manager because she’s been so fab.

Did you not read the post I was replying to?

offended by use of a mobile phone, being excited about the work ball, ‘slack’ appearance, taking a lunch break and wanting to WFH

This is all very out dated, I’d not step foot in a workplace that treated me like a child about my phone or cared what I wore to work, or that took such an odd view to working from home.

These are very outdated views, and will be why this poster is struggling to recruit. The world of work has changed for the better, adapt or die

Just move to a company whose culture and working style are better suited to you

Not really because as OP clearly stated he/she also has to meet expectations set by HR which can also be unrealistic while they try to be seen as woke and accepting. It makes things harder for the managers who actually have to execute.

Snap I have 5 early to mid 20’s on my team. 3 of them are absolutely brilliant and 2 are quite frankly a bloody nightmare for all the reasons people have listed. One has told me she won’t work for her direct line manager anymore because he isn’t sympathetic to her needs and she feels she is undermined by him and gives us the most ridiculous examples to support this. It’s frankly a nightmare

YANBU OP

Is the problem this generation of junior staff, or this generation of managers not being able to manage them?

Junior staff don't know the workplace. They need the guidance of a strong manager who sets the tone, lets junior staff know was is expected of them and develops the team as a whole. Your job is to get them working together to have pride in their work and achievements. Then weed out the slackers before they destroy the whole team. There has always been and will always be slackers, that is nothing new.

If you can't do this you are not management material (yet). Speak to your manager about getting a mentor or training.

Depends what 100% flexible means.

If it means being on standby 24/7 then it’s not reasonable.

Sure 2pm on a Thursday isn’t an unreasonable time to request a meeting, but it’s also not an unreasonable time to have a weekly commitment if you do really work 100% flexibly.

Its a two way street. I think you need core hours. And if core hours don’t work because you expect employees to work all over the place (weekends and evenings if events) at beck and call then it’s unreasonable to say employee can’t do a 2pm run.

I'm not sure this is all new. I'm 50, and one of my Gen X contemporaries when I was a grad trainee in the '90s was disgusted at being asked to do some photocopying, and expected quick promotions and so on.

I don't mind people going for a run or other appointments in the middle of the day, as long as:

• They are available for regular meetings (our team meetings happen at the same time every week.)
• They mark it in their calendars (this will just show as "busy" when others are trying to arrange meetings, so people don't need to know it's a run/gym instead of another work meeting.)
• They do their contracted hours, i.e. make up the time.
• Prioritise work deadlines and manage their time accordingly.

It is important to take breaks and exercise, but learning to manage and prioritise your time is part of working, and there are people of all ages in all organisations who take the piss, and those who slog their guts out till they burn out, so it's not easy to find the balance. There will be times when you get meeting clashes and knowing which ones you can be flexible about and which you cannot move and must attend is all part of learning to work effectively.

It's a manager's job to help their staff learn to prioritise and where things can't be moved. So for something like the team meeting, they should be cancelling or moving the PT session, but if it's a newly set up meeting, and the PT sessions have been running a while, I might give them a week's grace, but be clear it's non-negotiable after that.

Our department is split across countries/timezones, which can make scheduling meetings a challenge, but it is possible. Flexibility goes both ways, though - if you do things at your own convenience sometimes, then other times, you have to repay that, be that working weekends or whatever. And priorities need to be clear.

Stop covering the gaps for lazy/incompetent people. Let them crash and burn, and don't extinguish the flames.

When that mess impacts the company's clients and customers and reputation , higher management will wake up.

Okay but equally I've been that middle manager who tries to "weed out slackers" by giving clear direction and expectations...only to get undermined by HR.

In my current workplace, if one of my team missed a deadline, didn't alert anyone, and I had to work an all-nighter as a result, my boss and HR would definitely support a disciplinary. But not all places are like that.

I read it as OP having to pull an all-nighter because the staff member hadn't done the job within normal hours and on schedule.

Ive seen it myself, tbh, you need to let some of them have enough rope to hang themselves.

I mean, these are kids who spent their Uni years (when most of us oldies were out partying and learning about life) locked up in their dorms. They've also been brought up by Instagram. It's no wonder their mental health is a shambles.

I agree with PPs that you need to change your tone, but also, you can take heart from the fact that the current recession means lots of redundancies across all sorts of white collar workplaces soon. The threat of redundancy will make the smarter kids get their act together...and the weaker ones will soon no longer be with you.

So if it is true (which anecdotally at least, it seems to be) that a large proportion of current graduates are just not cut out for work, and their managers are having to pick up the slack, who will be doing the actual work and the managing in 20 years' time? Can we expect a decline in service standards in many industries?

My 23 year old trainee is a dream, generally - bright, confident, hard-working, takes responsibility for himself - and I have seen him at his desk reading Jordan Peterson which could have something to do with it, even if I am loath to admit it.

If they are taking the piss then it sounds like your own inability to manage your team. Think about strengthening your skills and perhaps doing a management workshop on how to effectively manage people. Maybe they can't be arsed because you don't reward or praise your team enough or give them something to strive for. A good manager will inspire their team and push them forward.

Moving the problem onto HR just seems like a cop out to me.

Please step up and make Shute this nonsense comes to an end. Some of us who’s not in senior positions at all work non stop while getting ridiculously low wages for a great responsibility. We don’t have a break and selfishly I’m tired to hear about someone who’s paid way more, including your employees, but are “anxious” to do their work properly. I’d Be out of the door if I behaved like this. This discrepancy makes my blood boil.

I'm not struggling to recruit, the company is struggling to recruit. However, once the new starter begins their work ethic is far removed from what was on their CV and how they presented themselves during the interview process.
If you think interacting with a personal phone 10 times an hr or wandering about the office for yet another 10 min chat 4/5 times a day, then we have different views on the concept of work.
I stand by my comment, work isn't a fucking jolly holiday or social event. We're extremely busy.
Luckily Senior management/directors are on board.

Whoa!

’FWIW, no core hours , we are 100% flexible working by default’

Aye, there’s the rub.
I spent many years working in a flexible working environment, & the principles are good…based on the solid core hours of 10-4 - unless working across more than a couple of time zones, e.g UK to US. That is everyone attends meetings in person or online between 10-4, is available to take calls for internal & external clients & there is no impact on team productivity.

Somewhere along the line, flexibility to support staff & productivity has become a free-for-all shuffling of hours.

A key principle of HR is to let the manager manage. This is what they are telling you, it is expected of you & whilst you are pulling all-nighters you are the one running the risk of under-performing…& you are telling HR this.

Have you a workplace mentor, someone senior in another part of the business who is not in your line management? Someone you can tap into for impartial confidential guidance? Refer you to a coach? Have you been recently xferred into a line management role? Is there some training or skills development that you may benefit from.

From what you say, it seems that your team members need to build their ‘resilience’, their ability to square up to what is required of them. Are they suitability trained & skilled for the standard of work required of them. Is there as skills pathway for your roles?

If one of your team shows signs of anxiety or not completing the designated tasks, you may need to take the hit on your time of micro-managing them through completion. Either that or do it all which is just not possible.

If the absence of reliance of recent workplace entrants is a critical factor, you will not be alone with this issue.

All I can say that is I took retirement from a FTSE 100 HR, the biggest concern was how to build resilience in new entrants & those depleted by years of high performance.