Keir Starmer loves strivers part 2.

[jgw1]

The old thread is filling up rather fast, so in case anyone wants to continue chasing themselves round in circles here is a new one.

And you've spelled his name right!

Bingo card at the ready, links to inconvenient evidence for people to ignore at hand...

Sorry, must try lazier.

Link to the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4688874-kier-starmer-he-hates-strivers

Thanks @jgw1.

I was bemused how someone on the other thread was congratulating themself for selfishly finding ways to keep hold of their wealth and trying to justify reasons as to why private schools shouldn't pay tax.

They seemed to have no social conscious at all. I thought they might be a member of the current government. They would fit right in.

Apart from taat and not wanting to get involved in part 2 really - Which poster?

On the removal of charitable status... roughly half of the existing independent schools are not charities.

So it is somewhat mystifying that some people think that removal of charitable status from the other half will trigger some kind of unprecedented calamity.

The children who receive financial assistance are in the minority.
And the percentage of children who receive full funding is even smaller.
The income threshold for financial aid is laughably high at some independent schools - there are few areas of life where a six figure salary warrant financial aid.
Schools also award aid based on non-financial criteria - ie financial need is not sufficient, you have to convince the school of your worthiness in other areas.

So, all in all, I'm really not convinced that there are masses of children from low-income families that currently attending independent schools who would therefore suddenly be ejected from independent school.
It will mainly be the upwardly mobile middle class (the "strivers", if you will) who know how to make a compelling case for financial aid or have stretched their finances to the limit, who will potentially be affected - and to be honest, the cost of living crisis might well scupper the latter before any changes to independent schools occurred.

In any case, it is also not an automatic given that the loss of charitable status would result in the loss of financial aid.
Many of the non-charity independent schools still offer bursaries and scholarships.
I would imagine that some schools will end up with a side charity and fund some bursaries that way because charitable donations are a tax write-off, there's a lot of PR/marketing in handing out a few bursaries.
Plus admitting high-achieving pupils on scholarships will boost their exam results.

@MarshaBradyo I imagine @L1ttledrummergirl was referring to Bard, who posted:

"...I sent one of my kids to private school, & one declined. Would some extra % make any difference to me. Nope. I had to give up my indulgent hobbies and the family had to make a few concessions. Wasn’t hard, it was our kids education, nothings more important than that. I went through gladiator (state) school myself. It was awfull. If envy means you think that i’m a bad person or i should pay more tax, fair enough. I think i should pay less and that the benefits and criminal justice systems are a shambles and undermining our society, bringing out the best and worst in us. We have different opinions, we see the world differently, i see opportunity everywhere and every time the rules change, i look for the opportunity.

We are likely to see a Labour government soon, the pendulum swings the other way now, it’s about time. I’m glad just it’s not Corbyn. Irrespective, i’ve made provision that any labour wealth redistribution policies will have no impact me, in fact, i suspect i will be better off…. And all these silly headlines about tax grabs of this and that will have virtually no impact in the merry go round of the treasury filling its coffers and giving it away. I’m not the sharpest tool in the box by a long way, and if i can protect myself from a labour government, i’m pretty sure those with access to tax experts, offshore havens, multiple passports are much further ahead than i am. A rather sad society if you step back and look at it cynically."

Vix ok thanks I wasn’t going to be pleased if it was referring to me ;

How will you be better off under Labour? Maybe it’s obvious but it’s late..

I can't read the first thread as it keeps crashing but, at the risk of barging in and repeating something already discussed, the private education thing seems one of those issues where the obvious moral choice has more complications behind it.
I agree in principle with taxing private schools but there seems to be no understanding of the huge variation in standard in state schools between areas which leaves some people with few options if they want their children to succeed. (I declare an interest here as my children went to private school because the standards at local schools were awful).

If you compare educational attainment between Blackpool and London the difference is appalling. We already face the fact in the North that all our talented youngsters have to leave the area for decent work prospects and failing to give them a decent education just condemns them to a lesser future

If that was directed at Bard, whose post I partially c&p, I'm not sure - and I don't know if Bard will see your question.

I can only guess that some aspects of social change or increased public services might be beneficial or free up personal money (that they'd otherwise have to use), which they'd then be able to stash away in some tax-efficient way.

If it was directed at me, I might have to reply later.

If you compare educational attainment between Blackpool and London the difference is appalling. We already face the fact in the North that all our talented youngsters have to leave the area for decent work prospects and failing to give them a decent education just condemns them to a lesser future

Yes get this in Cornwall too... i had to move away in 1987 but what about all the talented kids (and all the others too) who get a substandard education?

Isn't the answer to hold Govt's to account as to why they have favoured the advantaged and not the general pop. ?

The £1.6bn raised simply is not enough to fix a system that has been under funded for decades.

I want more vision from Starmer and Labour... benefit of the doubt atm .. 2 years out from a GE but with 12 months they will need to start putting some distance between themselves and the cons.

No worries missed the quote mark and thought the second para yours

‘It was more reading these posts re a steadfast belief they are ‘subsidising the rich’.

well, we are.
these schools are businesses and should be treated as such it as charities.

I’m not up for continuing so on second thread but feel free to start anew without dragging quotes over

Thank you @VivX , that's exactly the poster I was mulling over late last night.

What's the point of a continuation thread if you can't include previous posts? You might as well kill the conversation dead.

I don't like continuation threads as all the daft nonsensical things I said on the previous thread might reappear.

Well you can but choose other people who want to reply, that was my quote and I’m not up for another thread of the same

Did someone appoint themselves the thread arbiter.

Try to not focus on my posts and go for it.

I’m sure you’ll survive

I know how needy you are but it gets a bit much.

Can you only chat if I am quoted?

No. So go for it leave me out if it

@MarshaBradyo as with any thread, if you don’t want to be part of it just ignore it! Don’t read and comment. Don’t even read.

Do you find that normally that occurs when someone has lost the argument and then want to shut down further discussion?

My belief that private schools are businesses run for the wealthy and therefore shouldn’t be given charitable status when they are not charities has changed just because a continuation thread had to be created!

send your child to private school, for whatever reasons you see fit, just don’t get pissed off when the rest of us don’t agree that those schools - stuffed full of privilege and money and for the most part only available to the privileged with money - are not charities.

I only commented due to vague attack from pp to check who it was but quoting someone is generally asking for a response and as I don’t want to continue quote others who do want to.

Easy!

I’m not shutting down discussion go for it a simple request to avoid dragging quotes across as I’m out.

Enjoy