Kier starmer! He hates strivers!

[Bucketheadbucketbum]

He wants to introduce a policy to put up the cost of school fees 10 to 15%. This is a tax on hard-working parents! We slave away cutting cots everywhere living hand to mouth to try and improve our childrens future . Live in an average house average area 1 shit car no holidays work like a dog to get our kids through. We are easing the burden on the state system by choosing independent schools. We're not sending them to Eton paid by our trust fund! Why does he want to punish strivers! Tax the energy companies! So disappointed. We need a new political party. What's the point in trying to better your future.

I too think it is just red meat for his supporters as it won't lead to positive change in state education and just force lots of families out of the fee paying sector. Many of whom send their children to fee paying schools because of SEN. There is a cohort of SEN pupils who are being failed by the state and need the smaller class sizes. Some of those parents scrape and pay fees. Often because they have exhausted every other avenue for getting support for their child.

I can see how it plays well when people are struggling so much at the moment with the cost of living. Plus keeping the discussions on the large, rich schools like Eton and Winchester makes it seem like it will only affect the wealthy. However there would be all sorts of unintended consequences from this policy (including increasing competition for places in good state schools, making private schools even more elitist) and I think Labour need to be honest about that.

I want to say maybe because they haven't been to private school but that would be bitchy and unnecessary

"Taking the emotional argument out of it" would be to explain why private schools should be classified as charities.

This policy is popular. Only 10% of the British public want the VAT situation to stay the same - the rest are split between wanting to remove it and wanting to make independent schools contribute far more to justify charitable status.

And yet, if you correct someone's spelling or grammar, you get called ableist / elitist and get sent off to Pedants' Corner!

I’d say there are two types of private school

the super rich public schools and prep schools, have a school hymn, Latin motto, big fancy old building, ridiculous uniform, fabulous facilities, boarding houses etc. fees £15-20k+ year. Your Eton etc These aren’t going to be affected by price rises. The super rich use these and will keep on doing so. That’s what most people think of when they think private education

the second are cheaper small private schools - no fancy old building, average facilities on par with state schools, uniform indistinguishable from the local state school, no fancy alumni or Latin. They exist in areas like mine where there are not enough state places or to meet special educational needs - private special educational needs schools are a thing people. They charge 6-9k year and are often operating at no or minimal profit. Parents choose these schools when the state has failed to provide school for their child. These are not the schools of the super rich but parents struggling to make the fees and won’t manage the increase. These are the schools that will close and then these children will have no education.

this policy would hurt children already left behind by the state who have failed to provide them with an education

maybe in 10years pressure from the parents of these children will create more apropos state places but it won’t happen in time for my child. I have already fought for her to try and get a state school place and failed I want her to have a state school place but I need her to have an education. I can’t afford a fee increase so my child will not have an education- how is this fair

Charities aren't VAT exempt.
Education is VAT exempt.
There is a difference.

The rented housing market isn’t the same because private rented takes the affordable properties people want to buy off the market. It’s fouling up both sectors hence the lack of affordable housing. People could afford a mortgage but the properties are all snapped up by buy to let.

Of course private schools are businesses.

The question of where does all the money come from to pay for private kids to go state is abut more tax for the bare bones and fundraising for the nice bits. Universities manage to take both sectors - how do they do it?

I just checked the latest financial report for our local private school. As they all claim "charitable status" you can see this all on the charity commission website.

They made a clear profit of just under £2m last year. Excuse me while my heart doesn't bleed for them.

There are some schools, very few, but some, who are true charitable schools. Who don't charge £30k+ a year. But your average private school is not a charity, they just do the minimum to tick boxes so they can claim their lovely tax free status.

I would love to see a reasoned debate in Parliament about this rather than attacking Rishi for having gone to Winchester. That's hardly representative of the whole private school system.

And of those paying £30k a year to send them to private school, are we really believing that an extra £3k on that will cause everyone to pull their kids out? No. If you can afford £30k, you can afford £33k.

And don't act like you're doing this to help keep a space open in a state school 🙄

@lightisnotwhite My point was more about the PRS and the social sector - if the social renter sector were better, renters would have more choice. As would parents who send their kids to private school not because they are ideologically wedded to private education but because the state provision is so bad

On £6k a year, a 10% increase would be £600. I don't believe people who send their children private can't find another £600 causing the school to close. Are people putting themselves on the poverty line, unable to heat their homes or feed their family to send their child to a private school??

I don't see why as a tax payer I should subsidise your child going to private school.

Why should they be charities? Why should they pay less tax than any other business?

It's far more nuanced than that. There are plenty of schools that look like your example 1 which aren't Eton.

I'd say three categories - public schools (as defined under the Act), private schools (well established and more reserves) and private schools (smaller, fewer reserves).

Not all parents sending their kids to category 2 are loaded

I don’t think they should.
People need to accept that like many non essentials Private school may be something they just can’t afford.
As I said our DC do go to Private school but if we had been forced to seriously comprise everyone’s lives then we wouldn’t have done it
Its a luxury item at the end of the day.

Ok, so would you rather the government picked up the tab for them going to a state school instead? Because that would cost them a lot more!

Oh course you could send your kids to state school and give the school the money you have spent on fees (since you can afford it). They can then better the experience for lots of kids instead of just yours.

This would offset your 'concern' about using state funded resources.

Private education is

'He wants to introduce a policy to put up the cost of school fees 10 to 15%. This is a tax on hard-working parents!'

Taking away the charitable status of businesses that CLEARLY are not charities isn't a tax on 'hard-working parents' because it's up to those businesses what they charge for their services.

Any school that truly IS a charity, providing free places for ALL pupils through fundraising and donations can still do so.

As for the parents sending their kids to St Paul's, Eton, Roedean etc I doubt it would make ANY difference as those fees are already so elitist, only the very wealthy can send their child/children there.

None of our local private schools here cost less than £16k per year in fees, plus another few thousand for extras like uniform, activities, transport on top. This puts independent schools out of the reach of most families. And as for 'scholarships' and 'bursaries' these are so low and so few that they barely make a dent in the fees but allow some MC parents to salve their conscience about going private and allow these schools to claim charitable status.

Knocking £1/2k a year off fees of £15k for a dance bursary or cricket bursary doesn't suddenly mean than your local postie can send his/her children private.

So YABU. No-one is going to wept for you having to pay more money, if it comes to it, to put your child in private school when half the country are struggling to heat their houses, feed their kids decent food, put petrol in their cars to get to work.

The majority of people I know that send their kids to private school do so with the help of wealthy grandparents. No strivers just living if the previous generators coat tails.

My kids go to state school and I spend a lot of money on extracurriculars instead. Why should I be heavily taxed on those when private school kids get them all thrown in at a tax reduction?

You have a choice. Send you child to your state school, engage with that school, help it to become better. Donate to the school since you have the spare cash, fund raise for it.
You child will be better off for being with real kids from the real world.