Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

Do you think this might be one of the first steps to implementing the 15 minute rule ? I was talking to someone recently who was telling me about the 15 minute rule. This is basically a rule which prevents you from travelling more than 15 minutes away from where you live. The rule is obviously not in place yet, but it looks like the first steps are starting to be taken.

Do you think this might be one of the first steps to implementing the 15 minute rule?

This was hinted at upthread but posters started going on about 'tin foil hats'.

All of these theories somehow don't seem so farfetched any more

Massive impact for people caring for people in the zone.
I agree air quality needs to be addressed but blanket inforcement is not the way

Interesting turns on this thread

A whole lot of "I told you so" coming up as some of us predicted this ages ago

I posted about the Oxford scheme too

anyway, to those saying "supermarkets deliver", yes, but I just tried that for my elderly mum and can't meet the minimum amount. It is just penalising certain groups of people. The two friends who normally help with her shopping....haven't got their car reg but pretty sure neither with meet ULEZ. Both will probably stop driving which is exactly what the elite want. Neither fit enough to use bus or Tubes so that's their social lifeline gone.

one of them was talking about moving near her son but this crap will cover the whole country soon.

I haven't recovered from the previous "I told you so" and I take no pleasure in it, it's all part of the same thing.

Indeed

being 84 is shit enough but mum is getting even more down with all this going on. Wonder how many people will visit with these extra charges?

Just laughing at the cycling suggestion…we live in a very rural part of Essex but we often have to travel to the new ULEZ zone for sports matches for the kids. A 50 mile return cycle ride is going to be great for my nine year old isn’t it.…and please explain how we are going to carry his cricket bag?!! I’m sure my 75 year old father will managed the cycle ride just fine, not. Honestly, some people can’t see longer than their own nose.

I'm poor, disabled and a carer. I'm very much in favour of the changes as I have young dc and I want them to grow up with cleaner air and better health prospects. That's something that everyone should want for all the children in London (and other cities).

Owning a car has never been an option for me as my disability means I'd never pass a test and I couldn't afford it anyway as we rely on benefits. Nowhere to park one on my council estate either. I've always lived with the lifestyle restrictions that come with a car-free lifestyle (despite it not being my choice) - supermarket deliveries, ferrying dc to activities, certain journeys being very long and inconvenient due to public transport connections, not being able to move out to the cleaner suburbs with better schools, as we're so reliant on public transport. That's just the way we've had to live. I can't even ride a bike either due to my disabilities - we just use public transport and walk a lot. We've been disadvantaged enough to get priority for council housing in an inner London borough. But I would never have opted to live anywhere with poor public transport, otherwise we'd be stranded - that is part of our lifestyle that comes with not being able to drive, and those who are priced out of driving due to the new fees will have to make similar choices to those of us who have not been able to drive for disability or financial reasons for years.

I'm poor, disabled and a carer. I'm very much in favour of the changes as I have young dc and I want them to grow up with cleaner air and better health prospects

But even without ulez they will grow up with cleaner air. Electric cars are becoming more popular. In 2030, new petrol and diesel cars won't even be allowed to be sold in the UK. This is not necessary. Technology is cleaning the air up for us.

And for every one person who is disabled/a carer/ poor who is happy about ulez I bet there will be 100 who are devastated by the impact it will have on their lives. As I said before there needs to be an exemption for the most vulnerable if they want it

Blu "that is part of our lifestyle that comes with not being able to drive, and those who are priced out of driving due to the new fees will have to make similar choices to those of us who have not been able to drive for disability or financial reasons for years."

and if your livelihood or support network depends on it, that's just tough shit? If you can't use public transport, it's just tough shit?

the powers that be are doing an amazing job with divide and conquer. And the quote above sounds a lot like some other recent rhetoric.

There's an exemption for people with specific disabled vehicles. There's a scrappage scheme for people on benefits. People who can't afford to run a car aren't affected. People who can't drive aren't affected. People who run a fifteen year old petrol car aren't affected. Pretty sure that's more than one percent of the poor and disabled of outer London who are far from devastated.

That's awful. So no commute to work?

Won't that disincentivise people to go to work and can't we visit family?

The trains are terrible at the moment

I think there will be riots if they try this

The fifteen minute rule wouldn't surprise me. They do seem to resent us travelling anywhere and put as many obstacles in our path as they can

Not so much moving the goalposts as breaking onto the pitch in the dead of night and redrawing all the lines.

Hmmmm… I see what you mean.

that is part of our lifestyle that comes with not being able to drive, and those who are priced out of driving due to the new fees will have to make similar choices to those of us who have not been able to drive for disability or financial reasons for years

Tbh this comes across as a bit gleeful, you can't have a car and you're happy that others are now going to be in the same boat.

I think there will be riots if they try this

The problem is that, as with everything, the changes are likely to be incremental and subtle. They are not going to call it 'The 15 minute rule' so that everyone freaks out. But by the time people start to feel the impact it will be difficult to revert the changes. It's important to discuss the topic, write to our MPs, etc

We need to stop people using 'climate change' as a get out of jail free card for legislation that will be severely detrimental to our way of life

Exactly
I can no longe drive for health reasons but it's horrible to see someone in the same boat being gleeful that others wind up in the same shitty boat.

as for "riots in the streets" ...this is all part of the sane thing and exactly the world I didn't want to live long enough to see. It is worth protesting because while it might happen eventually, every delay buys us a bit more quality of life.

as for "people who don't drive aren't affected" - that's madly short sighted. But I suspect people like this don't have the nouse to realise all the knock on efforts, don't have visitors who drive, don't use the buses etc.

Sorry I meant to quote this.

Here's the Oxford info. Shit like this will happen everywhere.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23079671.anger-travel-chief-announces-traffic-filters-going-happen-definitely-ahead-decision/

We leave right on the edge of London (just inside the M25) and this is going to have an devastating effect of many of our friends. It's not just that you need to buy a new car/van, it's also that your current one is now worthless.

Public transport is not as convenient as central London. It's ok if you want to go into London, but if you want to travel around the outskirts, it can take much longer. Takes me 20- 25 mins to drive to work. By bus/ train it takes about 2 hours to do the same journey.

Do any other countries have these kind of schemes in place

I live in the current ULEZ zone but I don’t have a car. Some people I know sold their cars. There seemed to be a roaring trade with dealers coming down from the North-East to buy cars.

Tbf I think the majority of vehicles are compliant now. My car is 12 years old and exempt, so is my mum's which is a 2002. There can't be that many left, surely? A handful of ancient diesel vehicles?

Lozzybear - a cricket bag? So businesses manage to fin alternatives for motor vehicles but you can't transport a bag with cricket stuff

@Devoutspoken have you seen the size of a cricket bag?! They are nearly as big as my kids. There is no way you could cycle with one!!!