AIBU to think society is really unfair about work and sickness?

[Lovelifelaughlots]

OK, gonna preface this by saying I'm not in the UK, and also just posting for traffic.

Got a meeting with HR next week to discuss my absences from work. Had a horrible pregnancy and was signed off for two or three months (where I am, pregnancy sickness is not considered different to normal sickness). Since starting nursery, babe has been ill almost all the time. I took a week off cos babe had RSV. Then half a day because nursery wouldn't take her due to oral thrush. And I've had time off myself because of mastitis and an abscess. All since August.

So, I totally get that from an employer's perspective, this is a nightmare. But from my perspective, what the hell do I do as a single parent? I don't have family well enough to watch my baby, and all my friends also work. So what on earth am I supposed to do? In my country, you can be dismissed easily for too many absences so I think I'm going to be fired, and then what, really?

It just seems so unfair that there is so little support out there for parents who work.

What would you do/say going into this meeting with HR?

It’s hard to advise when you’re not in the UK

without wishing to sound harsh, is this not something you thought about before you had a child alone with no family or other support nearby? It’s not a secret that kids get ill.

You need to read up on your rights in this situation. I’m also not in the uk but where I am it’s not legal to dismiss someone for being off sick unless it’s been a specific amount of time, plus some other conditions. Find out what laws apply to you in your country and take a copy into your meeting.

You should also highlight that in the first year of nursery children get sick a lot, but it eases up after this, plus you won’t be breastfeeding forever so you probably won’t be getting mastitis every year…

Its a shit situation for everyone but sadly it’s on you to get childcare and support from others once you’ve run out of available sick days. Or take unpaid leave. Where I am you get more sick days to take if you’re a single parent as you’re not then sharing the burden…but I don’t really see what else the state can do to help single parents.

@HermioneWeasley I wasn't alone when I had my child. Not everybody is so lucky to have family, support, and good health, you know. And that's my point, that society is unfair. It's not anybody's fault that some people are alone/this impacts on work, but what can people do if they are alone and a single parent? I'm trying to work. I'm not claiming benefits. But working just seems impossible.

Id rather not say which country, but it's an international company in a country a bit like the States in terms of labour laws.

@SuspiciousLampshade This is great advice, thank you.

Do you think it would be worthwhile reminding them of the years I spent with them when I didn't even ask for any time off when an immediate family member was very sick? Or would that seem bitter and uppity?

If you know you’ve got no protections or rights in law, and you don’t think there is anything you can do about your situation (better back-up childcare etc) then I don’t know what anyone could advise you.

Other than sympathising that it’s tough.

Why don’t you want to say what country you are in, though? Posters could probably help better if they knew that detail, it’s really important.

Is your baby’s father not involved at all, or was it a planned solo pregnancy from the beginning?

@Lovelifelaughlots you could do depending on how the meeting goes. If you have a long employment history with them it might be worth highlighting how little you have been off prior to having your DC. You mention it’s an international company and if it’s large they might not know your specific situation.

I’d be emphasising that this is a temporary period and that it’s not going to become the new normal. It doesn’t surprise me that you’re in this situation as I think the number of companies who don’t count on employees knowing their rights is scary. I work in research focusing on pregnancy/birth and sick leave (among many other things) and we’ve seen many cases of companies trying to push pregnant women out or being surprised they’re off sick despite it being very common…one of my coworkers likes to say “they obviously think babies are still delivered by stork” 😅

Good luck!!

I feel bad for all that you have suffered, OP. Hope you and your child feel better soon.

To the broader topic, this is one reason that solo parenting isn't a great idea; babies need a larger family unit for exactly this reason. It's not really up to the employer to fill the role of family. I mean, what is the answer? Full pay for very limited attendance and output? How is that fair to other employees?

Anyone contemplating parenthood should have plenty of savings and other risk management tools in place, as well as child care/babysitters lined up and other forms of human support. One can't just wing it and expect indulgences from everyone else.

On a planet teeming with 8 billion people, and burning, there really isn't much incentive for "society" to support and subsidize the production of more human beings. We have multiplied ourselves into commodity status and things aren't going to get better at the rate we are going. It's a dog-eat-dog world and that won't be changing in our lifetimes; there are just too many of us. Take a look around at all of the problems, most of which are the result of population density and competition for basics like food, housing, warmth, wages.

YANBU. The fact it's for such a limited amount of time that you and baby will be prone to sickness means some workplaces need to be a lot more understanding.

I have had to have 5 days off sick since I returned to work in February and feel terribly guilty. Basically from catching things that my baby picked up at nursery.

I do have an understanding employer but had I not had an understanding one I can perfectly see how much this would pressurise women to give up and leave the workplace after having kids.

This is not what society or the economy needs so it's down to all of us to be more supportive in that year after returning from mat leave.

Which country are you in OP? No one can advise and rules differ across countries.

”A bit like the States” means nothing. Each of the 50 states has their own laws regarding labor.

Presumably the pregnancy-related sicknesses were one-offs so those can be pushed to the side in the meeting. Bring in doctor’s notes for the things that have happened since then.

It's not fair but try to be in private sector and it's much worse. I have SIX sick days on full pay. That's it.

Unfortunately unless you are willing to share the country you are in, then there is little advice I or anyone else can really give.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune

To the broader topic, this is one reason that solo parenting isn't a great idea; babies need a larger family unit for exactly this reason. It's not really up to the employer to fill the role of family. I mean, what is the answer? Full pay for very limited attendance and output? How is that fair to other employees?

Anyone contemplating parenthood should have plenty of savings and other risk management tools in place, as well as child care/babysitters lined up and other forms of human support. One can't just wing it and expect indulgences from everyone else.

You do realise that the vast majority of lone parents don't plan to be lone parents? A vanishingly small number of women set out to have a baby on their own. In the overwhelming majority of cases a woman conceives within a marriage or relationship which breaks down, often due to the man's infidelity or domestic violence.

I'm a lone parent who has worked right through (and I recognise a lot of what the OP describes here although thankfully I have managed to avoid this situation). I left my husband because he was an abusive alcoholic who burned through family savings and was reluctant to work. I don't have any family around me so I relied on paid childcare. Would it have been better for me to stay in a dangerous situation in order not to inconvenience my colleagues?

I can see both sides of this equation to be honest. I have been in the OP's situation and its a lose lose: you can't both care for a sick child and be in an office. It's heartbreakingly awful to be in this position and I'm still triggered about it now. On the other side of the equation, staff who have to pick up the slack for this do end up feeling very resentful that they are working extra to cover someone else's childcare problems. It's difficult.

But being sanctimonious about avoiding lone parenthood to someone who is in a difficult position and very clearly didn't choose this helps no one.

It is very tough being a working lone parent, particularly with babies or small children. I have done this myself for many years. BUT there is a balance to be struck - if parents could take unlimited leave then employers would try to avoid employing mothers and other employees would be very resentful.

If your meeting is with HR, they will know how long you have worked and they will have access to all of your evaluation records. Rather than trying to impress them with your longevity with the company or your stellar performance record as these are all things with which they are well acquainted, it might be better to go in with a well developed plan that you have for addressing the problem related to your attendance record.

The company has a right to assume that you have addressed the issues related to care and alternative care,etc when you accept employment. If your needs are outside of the company allowed leave plans, then it will fall on you to come up with a solution.Are there any other single parents at your place of employment ? If so, you might inquire how they managed these issues. You are probably not the only or the first single that parent they have employed.

I'm in the private sector and we get 6 months 🤷‍♀️

Hmmm...

Why did you assume that OP was single by choice, @HermioneWeasley ?

Yep what’s with the single parent shaming?

A tiny proportion of people choose single parenthood. If a woman is on her own it’s almost always because a man hasn’t been up to the job.

I’m not sure it’s single parent shaming so much as pointing out that if you’re a single parent with no childcare options whatsoever, you may find it difficult to hold down employment. It’d be better to try and cultivate some options so as to reduce that difficulty, rather than expecting your employer to fill the gap by paying you to carry out childcare yourself.

I’m sure the OP is aware of this. It’s not as simple as just “cultivating” childcare options if you can’t afford paid childcare and have no network.

But there’s also an unpleasantly judgmental tone to some of these “what did you expect” comments. They assume that the OP conceived and had a child on her own just for shits and giggles. Situations like this are incredibly rare. It’s almost always because a woman has been abandoned.

It’s an appalling situation with no easy answers but the smugness is strong here.

I am waiting for my employee to change their sickness policy because most kick the absolute arse out of it.

And are always miraculously better when the pay decreases. More or less to the week.

The maternity policy is great by the way and they try very hard to accommodate unexpected days off.

My colleague got pregnant. Brilliant. But she quite happily told me that she’d timed it so that she could be on maternity for the hardest part of an ongoing project. She also got a promotion because she was no longer able to do the manual job. She got moved in there on the quiet. Came back for 6 months. Applied for a higher position and got it because of her previous position (ahead of a better candidate who was applying from the lower ranks). Stayed long enough to show willing and has been off regularly having three more lovely babies and lots of days off due to maternity and childcare issues. But everyone has to pick up the slack.

Yes Op I sympathise. It sounds absolutely tough. But the unfairness works both ways sometimes.

I think you only have to look at the judgemental comments here to realise that there is little compassion for people who are struggling with illness, disability or parental responsibilities.

I think it is very much a capitalist issue as well: all that matters it seems is profit/money and the needs of the employers while the well-being of the individual is irrelevant.

It seems you are only of value to some as long as you can work, never get sick and don't have childcare responsibilities...in reality humans don't all function like that.

It is sad to see so many people who can't wait to come down on anyone who doesn't fit in their idea of the perfect employee/human.

I have no family, so no support network, and a long term health condition. The amount of discrimination you get if you are sick/disabled is frankly appalling.

I work in HR and I often attend mtgs like this and we have dismissed people for absenteeism. We have to follow a careful process though and it takes a long time.
My advice would be to have explanations for all your absences and to be apologetic and promise to do better.
You're more likely to get some sympathy that way.