To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Always. Without equivocation.

That last reason is perfectly valid.

so sorry @georgarina

@georgarina

I'm so sorry and especially sorry that you've had to read such awful posts on this thread by forced birthers

hopefully my meaning came across, but in case it didnt

ANY REASON IS OK!

I mean morally, insane, surely someone would learn a lesson after having a first abortion that is not due to a medical problem. Its a child that pays with its life when someone has some fun but isnt responsible.

This.

Heidi has the right to her opinion, she does not have the right to force that opinion on anyone else.

But you're missing the point! The 24 weeks is only relevant for healthy foetuses. For pregnancies with medical issues there is no limit, so there is no "forced birth" or "lifelong care" needs.

The 24 week limit is very high (imho) for women with healthy pregnancies who decide they don't want to continue with the pregnancy.

For those who have medical issues detected at any time during the pregnancy they can (rightly) have a termination up until birth.

People forget that children with severe disabilities used to be left in large numbers in institutions. It is extremely hard on the family to bring up a child with severe disabilities, especially where there are behavioural problems.

I have cared for am adult whose development did not progress beyond a three month old baby. She could not even hold her own head up. Caring for a baby is tough. Caring for a fully grown adult unable to even hold their own head up is bloody impossible for a family.

I'm wondering this too. How can you terminate 'up to birth' ie full term. Babies can be 'viable' way before the full term, so surely if a baby is aborted at full term, the doctor would need to do something to ensure it doesn't survive? Sorry if this is triggering, I just can't wrap my head round how an abortion can take place at this stage?

I also know an adult with Down’s syndrome: my younger sibling. I am delighted they exist, but am still not in favour of restricting women’s reproductive rights.

If these campaigners actually want to improve things for people with down’s and other disabilities, they should advocate for greater support from government for disabled people and their families. Many parents of disabled children are on their knees.

THIS ⬆

In spades!

What a cruel post @CoastalWave.

I had a termination at 31 weeks. I desperately wanted the baby, I had IVF to get pregnant.

The issue my baby had took a long time to identify because there were numerous soft markers and high NT. There isn't just "a test" for everything, many many genetic syndromes don't have any easy test or method of identification - there are people for whom it takes years to diagnose let alone in utero.

I terminated not just for my baby who would have had several health issues - limb defects, intellectual impairment, horseshoe kidneys, liver problems, a heart issue - but also for myself and my quality of life. Support for parents of disabled children is shit in this country and I have no doubt that my quality of life would have been extremely poor if I had gone through with the pregnancy.

The decision was so hard that I almost walked out in front of a truck outside the hospital rather than go inside and make it.

I mean morally, insane, surely someone would learn a lesson after having a first abortion that is not due to a medical problem. Its a child that pays with its life when someone has some fun but isnt responsible.

Its a foetus. Its not a child. Plus you do realise accidents happen. Or circumstances change.

The court case that was defeated today sought to reduce the time limit for all abortions, regardless of reason, to 24 weeks, so they're not missing the point at all.

The 24 week limit is very high (imho) for women with healthy pregnancies who decide they don't want to continue with the pregnancy.

It's 24 weeks because that's the point at which most lives become viable.

Lots of women don't find out til fairly far into pregnancy that they're pregnant.

I am in Ireland and we are probably a decade behind the UK in these type of conversations.

Our restrictions mean women are still traveling when they time out.

The case law and data that was used in our referendum showed the majority women seeking later abortions needed urgent care themselves e g. Chemotherapy or that the baby had a devastating diagnosis.

The absolute scare mongering that goes on about women having safe access to all medical care still astounds me.

I don't know. I can see how there's an argument that the deciding line should be probable viability outside the womb regardless of disability. I think most people agree that no person may be legally compelled to utilise their organs to support the life of another (otherwise those transplant lists would be a lot shorter, for one thing.) So abortion up to the line of probable viability should be guaranteed for any reason. If you then allow abortion for a fetus that is viable but disabled I see how there's a discrimination argument. I don't know if it's a good argument or not, I'm just saying I can see that it exists.

That is heartbreaking @notinagreatplace . What a terrible thing to have to endure - I'm so sorry

When I read threads like these I can clearly see that what is happening in america is going to happen here. When women won't even stand up for other womens right to choose then there is no hope is there. I am genuinely glad that I am too old to get pregnant and need an abortion. It honestly scares me.

A doctor always has to “do something” to a foetus in utero before a termination. The process is exactly the same.

Honestly I can’t believe how some people comment on threads like this without any basic knowledge.

I agree OP.

I think people that believe in forced birth, like you, are disgusting
And many complications aren't diagnosed until 20 weeks plus
I worked in paediatric palliative care for the better part of a decade, including after death care, and to suggest that termination for medical reasons is a decision women take lightly is so ridiculous that I can't believe you're not trying to be purposefully inflammatory

This! Saved me typing it.

@Fififafa YANBU. Sick to DEATH of people trying to police what other women do to their body. As many posters have said, the vast VAST majority of women have abortions before 24 weeks anyway. So just leave women alone for the love of fuck! 🙄

notinagreatplace I am so sorry you went through that hunny