To want my autistic DC to start reception in mainstream?

[Ambern7]

DC gets on well at mainstream nursery but is developmentally behind peers. I am not happy with the special needs provisions in our area so have opted for mainstream with good support in place through EHCP, which we fought hard for.
However, professionals involved keep asking me if we are sure we don’t want to go with the special provisions, they have listed lots of things they think are great about the school, however I don’t think the facilities will benefit my DC personally.
These unwanted opinions have got me second guessing something I was so sure of previously. I just don’t see the problem of starting off in mainstream and seeing how it goes, AIBU?

Same here. DS3’s EHCP costs over £30k and he receives multiple therapies many say are only available in SS.

My son had ASD. I had to fight like he'll for his ehcp. I then had to fight like he'll for his mainstream school to follow it. Long story short we ended up with him being frequently suspended as the school did not follow said ehcp, and picked fault with the simple things like him having his coat on in class. This was something mentioned to keep him calm in his ehcp however they would not allow this because of the other children. We then had to fight for specialist provision. His been there since September. Its one on one in his new school. It has been amazing for him. Now when I get phone calls its not with a sense of dred to go pick him up and being pulled out of work. It is because his done something fantastic and they want me to know about it because his doing so well. Trust me when I day if you put your child in mainstream but it does not work you will struggle to find a specialist place, however if you start in specialist provision but later feel mainstream can meet your child's needs I imagine getting a place would be much easier.

Should say has asd not had

I think those of us who have been fortunate enough to get what we want for our kids need a reality check. I have two dc with asd. In my time I have forced the lea to fund a home aba education programme, a 1.1 TA, private SALT a specialist independent ASD placement and a weekly boarding residential placement at a specialist school. If all parents did this the system would grind to a halt as it costs a great deal of money. It simply isn't realistic to expect that la will fund this for every parent that asks. I would prefer it if the la built more special schools. I even think that specialist units attached to mainstream provision would be better than trying to shoehorn kids into mainstream.

I don’t need a reality check thank you. Parents should be supported to advocate for their DC and enforce their rights rather than accept unlawful practices and inadequate provision. That doesn’t help anyone.

LAs won’t fund it if parents “ask”. They will have to fund it parents force them to. The LA lacking funding argument is ludicrous whilever they are spending large sums of money on representation to defend indefensible cases against unrepresented parents.

Enforcing provision DC are legally entitled to doesn’t have to be instead of funding more SS places for parents who wish for their DC to attend SS.

Some excellent posts over the last few pages by @cantkeepawayforever and @cansu.

Whereas That'sNotMyCar and 2 or 3 others on this post still don't seem to be getting that the excellent advocating they have been able to do for their dc - whilst wonderful - really, really is not typical of the hundreds of thousands of families of children with significant needs.
@Ambern7 has even said in your last post that getting an EHCP so early doesn't depend on your dc's needs being more significant. No, in your case, it depended on you getting a specialist lawyer. Once again, that is simply not realistic for the overwhelming majority of parents.

The bar to even getting an EHCNA request past even the first panel has gone through the roof in my LA. I know what the response will be here - that that is illegal. I absolutely agree with you. I'm no lawyer, but I am pretty sure it is illegal, but the overwhelming majority of parents don't know this, and, even those who think it might be, don't have the energy, or money, or expertise to be able to do anything about it.
I am genuinely pleased that you have managed to get a 'water tight EHCP' and understand that you are comfortable to threaten the school with legal action at every turn, and that does then mean your dc are the exception, but it doesn't mean that is typical of the provision the overwhelming majority of families get.

I am well aware it isn’t typical and many don’t have watertight EHCPs. I did post DC whose parents know the system and can advocate for their DC get better support. It shouldn’t be like that but it is. But rather than accepting that and unlawful practices parents should be supported to advocate, appeal and enforce their rights.

but the overwhelming majority of parents don't know this, and, even those who think it might be, don't have the energy, or money, or expertise to be able to do anything about it.

Which is why I also said parents should be supported to advocate and enforce their DC’s rights.

At a recent SEND briefing, my county SEND team showed a lovely chart which demonstrated that, 10 years ago, twice as many EHCP requests were accepted as rejected, now they reject more than they accept. They openly said that they reject them if there is the slightest discrepancy or omission in the paperwork.

You only need to look at the fact most local authorities spectacularly fail their ofsted inspections to realise how much children with additional needs are being failed by the system

I don’t think the system would grind to a halt if all children were properly supported. I actually think in the long term it would save money because it would prevent children reaching crisis point and needing much more expensive interventions.

if we hadn’t got the water tight ehcp with full 1-1 when we did it would have cost the LA a hell of a lot more to provide a suitable education

@UsingChangeofName I’m well aware that this is not typical. I am also aware we are lucky to be able to hire a lawyer to help us through the system. I know many parents don’t have time/resources/energy to navigate the system. It’s a dire situation and we all want to do the best for our children.
Perhaps if more parents were empowered about the system then LA’s would be forced to make real changes. Right now they are getting away with not giving suitable education support for the majority of children with Send and it shouldn’t be that way.
Also there’s no awareness in society about these issues unless you have been through it yourself.

It depends very much on the child and the schools concerned. Can you speak with other parents who have tried both? What discussion have you had with ALL the potential teachers?
Personally I think special schools, with the right leadership and staff, can work wonders. DS2 also autistic, started at rising 5 in an MLD school (outstanding Ofsted reports every year) and now has a Masters degree and lives independently.
His teachers were all highly qualified, really committed and dedicated to communicating well with us as parents. Can't sing their praises highly enough.

Rare but not impossible. DS has an IQ of 140+ and spent his school career in special education until going mainstream at 14. Without the foundation of a specialist base in an MLD school, small classes and individual attention, my view is he'd not be where he is today

I think we also have to remember that, however well parents advocate for their own child, and however watertight their own child’s EHCP, the experience and success of their own child will be affected be the other children in the other classroom. One of the children I have taught with very high needs due to ASD had a good experience in an otherwise quiet, orderly, compliant class with few other high needs children. The following year, a child who was, on paper, very similar on both needs and provision, was much less well provided for due to the presence of several other children with very high needs that affected behaviour and led to a very unpredictable classroom environment. None of these other children had the support in place that they needed - for reasons of language, process delay, parental denial of need, repeated school moves etc etc. However much you fight for your own child, the weaknesses in the system for others will affect them.

I also am very aware that the success I had undoubtedly impacts on the funds available to fund schools and 1.1 TAs for other students. There isn't a bottomless pit of money. I have had more than my fair share for my kids.

Thatsnotmycar They spend money defending these cases precisely because the sums involved are huge. My ds placement in independent specialist school cost 70k a year and he was there for nine years. That's over half a million. He also had respite. My dd has had a similar amount of funding.

Actually someone has made a really good point about the rest of the class.

For the local primary you want, what are average class sizes, how many TAs etc.

Plus you simply don't know what the rest of the make up of the class will be, and thus competing needs

I’m well aware of the sums involved, DS1’s EOTAS package costs well over £100k pa and DS3’s EHCP in MS over £30k, both also receive social care provision, and why the LA act as they do but they then can’t then plead lack of funds if they are spending large sums defending indefensible cases against unrepresented parents.

However much you fight for your own child, the weaknesses in the system for others will affect them.

This is part of the reason why I support others to advocate for their DC and secure the provision required.

Local primary is a small school. They have 15 in reception and the last few years have actually had less than that. I think the small class will benefit DC. If we do go with mainstream. And you are right it really does depend on the situation of the other children in the class.
I suppose you never know how it’s going to be until they have started.

thatsnotmycar
Where would the funds come from if everyone achieved or was given the package they wanted?

Package they need. DC aren’t given provision just because it is wanted.

The funding could come from a variety of sources starting with the money LAs waste right through to higher taxes and many other sources inbetween.

This 100%

In our LA there are sometimes 4 or 5 dc per class of 30 now going in to some schools who have EHCPs, or, in reality should have EHCPs.

We have five children in eyfs with ehcps. All five need 1:1 full time. The ehcps do not state this explicitly but, for us to ensure the safety of all pupils and staff, we must provide that level of support. Unfortunately, school must fund the first ten hours for each of those staff members from notional SEN funding. The impact of this on school budget is severe. We have had to cut TA provision across school so that the only TAs we have are allocated 1:1.
how many children need TA support but won’t get it?

schools are woefully underfunded and until significant changes are made we will inevitably fail children

Higher taxes are needed for:
better housing
care of the elderly
social care for children and adults
carers
hospitals
camhs

The list goes on. As a parent of children with high level needs, I want there to be appropriate services for them. What are these other sources?

Higher taxes can funded more than one thing...

If you are concerned about funding and think not all DC can receive the provision they need because of that you could always give up the provision your DC receive. No, thought not. Why do you think it is acceptable for other pupils to not receive provision they need but not your own DC because you want “there to be appropriate services for them.”?