to think it's ridiculous for football player in Qatar to want to protest about LGBT rights?

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when they are playing in stadiums built by migrant workers in appalling conditions? Plus, to me it seems the height of cultural imperialism to go to other countries and expect them to adopt out moral stances.

Yes, I didn't miss it. That's the point - you apply moral relativism to homophobia but not to racism.

I can think of a couple of reasons, or at least contextualisations, as to why gay rights is the bigger hot-button issue here.

1 Gay people are a minority. Women aren't.
2 Male sexuality could be seen to have a direct relevance to men's football because a certain %age of male players will be gay, even if they are not out. (And much has been written about the toxic nature of men's football, and how gay players are abused, victimised, pressurised to stay in the closet or hounded out of the game.) Women aren't directly involved in playing men's football. There are no women playing for men's teams. So the context for gay men and their representational struggles/issues is more immediately relevant to this situation than women's rights.

This doesn't mean that women's rights or workers' rights don't matter. But the context is relevant. I can totally see why gay rights has become more of a story here than women's rights, and is the better protest in this circumstance. This doesn't mean I don't support better women's rights in Qatar, and indeed many other countries.

A protest isn't imposing anything. It's a protest.

Why is being gay in quotes?

Why are you defending these homophobic laws?

Penalising players for making the mildest of protest is 'imposing values'

Gay people are a minority. Women aren't

Doesn't that make women's rights the hotter issue in Qatar? When half the population are second class citizens?

Qatar has been a signatory to the UN Charter of Human Rights since 2018 having been a member of the UN for many years

Not sure why you're wanging on about imperialism, western values/culture etc
Human Rights correctly stand above all these

Arguably awarding the WC to Qatar has seen some small movement to aligning with global human rights and labour laws - sadly too late for the workers who died.

Not sure that I'm expecting much further progress in future

Well, that depends on the perspective. I don't personally think a ranking system of rights is particularly helpful, because it's never going to be universally agreed. It's a dangerous path to go down, minimising or dismissing the rights of minority groups because there's a bigger group who have their own problems.

I think within the context of men's football, in a country where acts of male homosexuality are illegal and potentially punishable by death, it's more directly relevant to protest about inclusivity and gay rights first and foremost.

Again, as I said in my full post, this doesn't mean that women's rights and workers' rights aren't also important, relevant and protestable. Just the context is different.

Yes, I didn't miss it. That's the point - you apply moral relativism to homophobia but not to racism.
no, because I support a boycott of goods from a country, like SA. I wouldn't support those who went to SA to protest. It's nothing to do with racism vs homophobia. It's to do with the West still behaving as though it rules the world. With the inconvenient truth that we have to buy Qatari oil, so we are reduced to armbands

I agree with you OP.

You only have to look at the spectators for the Qatari and Saudi games. Spot the women - clue, there aren't any. They may be some gay men though, you just wouldn't know.

The women’s national team were launched to great fanfare as part of Qatar’s World Cup bid in 2010 but they have not played a single competitive fixture since 2014

Progress eh?

If they were that bothered, FIFA should not have allowed Qatar to host the world cup in the first place. Individual countries could have refused to participate.

Of course I believe in basic rights for all but I do not think it is the business of another country to tell another country what to do. It is for the citizens of that country to stand up for change and hold their government accountable.

FIFA don't care. Membership of FIFA is mandatory for countries and their related players, to play in the WC, Euros etc etc. It's not as easy as "we're not coming" because that just means you're out. Forever.

Unles every country in Europe had said that, but they have to speak through UEFA who are closely tied, and probably as corrupt, as FIFA.

I agree Pottydimly. It's been a few years but this was certainly my take on the gulf states when I had experience of three of them. Shocking me is the very muted outrage about the slave labour that has been a constant but reached shocking levels with the World Cup. Thousands of Nepalis (others too, but I have direct experience of these) lived and worked as slave labour. The number who died or sustained life-changing injuries ran into the thousands. There was no insurance or compensation. It was common for the ones who did survive to go home (when they finally got their passports back)with $1200 for three or four years hard work of long hours in blistering heat. Not such a right-on cause perhaps.
As for LGBTQ rights countries like Qatar are near the top of the intolerance curve without a doubt, but we're all on it somewhere. The World Cup should never have been awarded to Qatar but if you want it to be inclusive, as sport should be, there's always going to be a moral mismatch at some level.
It's unfair to blame the likes of Kane. He's a footballer, not some sort of moral lighthouse to guide us with its beams. FIFA should at the very least have cared for the wellbeing of its players, and not put them in an impossible position.

The one thing worse than oppressing a minority is oppressing a majority or equal numbers.

'Never mind, I've consulted wikipedia. It looks like it is anal sex, not "being gay" that is a problem for them'

No it's not, it's ANY sexually activity between same sex couples that's illegal. Although gay people have been arrested, beaten, imprisoned for 'gender expression' ie. looking gay.

I'd say "being gay" in quotes is legitimate in this case because the question was What is the sentence in Qatar for "being gay" - clearly, simply being gay is not a crime, no more than being a paedophile is a crime in this country - the offence only occurs when a person acts on their preferences.

(Think about it - how would you know someone was gay if they didn't have romantic or sexual contact with people of the same sex, and they didn't tell you they were gay? You wouldn't be able to tell.)

On the broader issue, I think it's terrible the way that teams have backed down in the face of a potential yellow or red card. Basically the FAs are saying "we support equality to the extent we're willing to pay a fine, but not to the extent that we're willing to jeopardise our tournament." If they're not willing to risk consequences that actually hurt, their support can't be that strong, can it?

Not sure why you're wanging on about imperialism, western values/culture etc
Human Rights correctly stand above all these

Quite. The notion that equality for women and cessation of criminalising sexuality are 'western values' is quite appalling really.
The values of people within a society is not the same thing as a culture imposed by an undemocratic system where the people don't all get a say and where internal protests may carry severe penalties.

On the broader issue, I think it's terrible the way that teams have backed down in the face of a potential yellow or red card.

I don't disagree, it's sad and disappointing but let's remember it's FIFA who are the real bastards here by enforcing this in the first place. The players are put in a difficult position. Perhaps they should have pulled out of the world cup ages ago but they haven't, they're there, this is England's best chance at a world cup in a long time and there's going to be huge pressure on them to play and not let their team or country down. We don't know what sanctions they face.

I'm glad I'm not having to make that decision. How many of you would put your job and future career on the line for LGBTQ or other minority rights, I wonder?

On the broader issue, I think it's terrible the way that teams have backed down in the face of a potential yellow or red card. Basically the FAs are saying "we support equality to the extent we're willing to pay a fine, but not to the extent that we're willing to jeopardise our tournament." If they're not willing to risk consequences that actually hurt, their support can't be that strong, can it?

Exactly.

(Think about it - how would you know someone was gay if they didn't have romantic or sexual contact with people of the same sex, and they didn't tell you they were gay? You wouldn't be able to tell.)

you honestly believe that? Then your gaydar must be really shit…

I don't disagree, it's sad and disappointing but let's remember it's FIFA who are the real bastards here by enforcing this in the first place. The players are put in a difficult position

It is clear that some of the national teams don't agree with the stance their individual FAs are taking. At this point with the thing underway all we can do is wait and watch.

Empty virtue signalling from players who couldn't have pointed to where Qatar was on a map if their lives depended on it.

This is what happens when you give a major tournament to a place like Qatar and try to ease everyone’s consciences with ‘ oh but we’ll have some sort of protest about human rights when we get there’ bullshit.