to think it's ridiculous for football player in Qatar to want to protest about LGBT rights?

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when they are playing in stadiums built by migrant workers in appalling conditions? Plus, to me it seems the height of cultural imperialism to go to other countries and expect them to adopt out moral stances.

Agreed, but many of us don't holiday in Dubai either. I've never set foot in the ME and have no intention of ever doing so.

exactly this, I saw the title of this thread and thought "I wish everyone was as bothered about womens' rights".

It's not LGBT rights either, it's G rights. I doubt anyone much cares about lesbians, either.

@Henuinequest I know of several gay people living their lives with partners in Qatar. Two lesbian couples and one single guy who certainly wasn't living a celibate life out there. One of my ex colleagues was a gay guy from England and my gay friend came for a holiday when I was living there and his sexuality wasn't a secret. Im not arguing with you about what you have said, but am just providing some of my own experience having lived there for several years. Everyone has their own story, of course, but there were definitely lots of gay people going about their lives without being arrested and flogged. Also, PDAs aren't allowed anywhere, even between husbands and wives. Again, not arguing just recounting that there were several gay people on my radar at the time, just going about their lives. Two of them actually came out while living there!

many of us don't holiday in Dubai either. I've never set foot in the ME and have no intention of ever doing so

Same here. Desert, heat and no regard for human rights whatsoever. What a great place for a holiday (not).

Qatar have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
If Harry Kane et al had been allowed to wear the armband it would have been much more of a non-story. As it is, threats of yellow cards, very public backing down is hilighting the human rights issues there much more.
The powerful men running Qatar would not have changed their policies or morals just because some footballer wore an armband so it wouldn't have achieved anything anyway. In not allowing the armbands and the outrage that has caused I suspectvmany more people will avoid Qatar for and governments will think twice about trying to justify dealings with Qatar to their now more aware electorate.

Same with the alcohol thing. Loads of people (myself included) wouldn't have noticed Budweiser were sponsors until alcohol was banned in the stadiums. The ban brought them loads of publicity.

I don't understand this ... we're talking about a country which is openly and firmly oppressive to many groups , rich native men are ok though.

I think we absolutely can and should judge that as backward. How can a country that had such a system be anything but?

Wanting women to be treated properly isn't being a Westerner and wanting to always be right (lets face it, women aren't treated that well in the West, either). It's simply not wanting women to be treated like chattels. I notice we're now completely ignoring what's going on in Afghanistan.

Bloody westerners, getting in a tizzy because Quatar wants to murder one man for loving another

But you didn't feel the need to apply your moral relativism to the South African boycotts - the argument you're trying to make doesn't depend on the nature or location of the protest.
I think you missed the post where I said I supported boycotts of SA. Which I did.

Qatar isn't a democracy. Do 'they' all live the way they want to live? The imposition of values is from within. so how does that entitle us to impose our values from without?

Yabu.
Qatar has never had so many foreign tourists. This is the world's opportunity to show them that their laws are abhorrent.

Their money may have bought them a World Cup but that doesn't mean anyone should let them think they are a decent regime.

Genuine question, but who has been murdered? Not being goady: genuinely asking. As I said uptrend, I lived in Qatar alongside several gay people and they are all still alive and weren't arrested at any point.

I don't think football should be political. If individuals want to share their beliefs off the pitch fine, but it shouldn't be on the pitch. It's a sport/entertainment and has nothing to do with politics.

I don't agree the World Cup should be held there, however you could look at every country in the world and find plenty of reasons why it shouldn't be held there.

I don't agree with their values and agree we should have conversations about basic human rights out there, but I also agree that the predominant narrative is around the LGB community, and actually we should be talking about the workers who died out there and also the women's rights. Where are the armbands for migrant workers or women?

I think you're missing the point that players in those 7 countries (not just UK) usually wear the one love armband in other matches as part of a long-standing agreement in an attempt to make men's football inclusive to gay / queer players and fans. They don't usually wear a migrant workers' rights or women's rights armband.

That's why in the past few days there's been a focus on LGBTQ+ armband discussion and the players' potential punishment. Then Alex Davies wore her armband which got more coverage. (Whether or not you think they are hypocrites, virtue signalling etc or not, the armband is a outwardly public sign of support)

I've read and heard plenty of discourse on the other human rights issues in Qatar personally. And the Iran team did a brilliant job of standing up for women's rights.

What I'm shocked at is the lack of discourse over the environmental impact. Those outside air con units make me so angry.

Should the world cup be in Qatar? 100% no, for ALL the reasons. I hope FIFA will learn a hard lesson from this.

Homosexuality can be punishable by death in Quatar. It's great your friends are safe but that's one hell of a deterrent.

My point was to highlight how offensive it is to claim posters discussing this was just a silly western view

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Do you regularly watch football, OP? We've been talking about All The Things since Qatar were awarded the event.

Footballers are people and can have various views on what is going on. The German team were photographed with their hands covering their mouths to indicate how they are being silenced.

Xhaka (god i love him playing football but he can say some daft things) says Football shouldn't be political (unless he's doing his Kosovo-Albanian symbols)

This post stinks of homophobia

So you don't really believe in basic human rights. You don't really believe women are equal to men, just that we're allowed to be (more or less) in our society. You don't really believe homophobic oppression is a bad thing. Would you have campaigned for homosexuality to be legalised in the U.K. at a time when 'our culture' didn't subscribe to that? Would you have asserted women's rights when 'our culture' was firmly against them?
Of course I would, but then, I'm intelligent enough to know that culture is constantly evolving. and also that, just because I am from Britain doesn't make me entitled to demand others take on aspects of my culture that they might find abhorrent. Just because I hold something to be self-evident (Gay and Women's Rights) doesn't mean that I have the right to impose that opinion on others.
Would posters have whole-heartedly supported missionary workers in the 19th Century, who were prepared to sacrifice their health and sometimes life (no stupid armbands then) because they sincerely believed in the Christian message? Probably not. But they are espousing the same values.

What is the sentence in Qatar for "being gay", if that's a crime, and what is the sentence for "anal sex"?

Never mind, I've consulted wikipedia. It looks like it is anal sex, not "being gay" that is a problem for them.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people in Qatar face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Sexual acts of male homosexuality are illegal in Qatar, with a punishment of up to three years in prison and a fine and the possibility of a death penalty for Muslims under sharia law; however, there are no known cases where the death penalty was enforced for homosexuality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Qatar

What I'm shocked at is the lack of discourse over the environmental impact. Those outside air con units make me so angry.
this in spades.
And, yes, I do watch football.
and I've never said that support from Gay Rights is a 'silly western view'. Just RTFT. I just think that to try and export my views is imperialistic.

It may not be perfect in England or other western countries but you cannot compare this to situation in Qatar where being gay is a punishable crime

Everyone makes their own decisions about the actions they take on a personal level. I try not to buy products containing palm oil, for eg, and it's bloody hard and often i just buy a product because i'm in a hurry and realise later. It doesn't mean I should just pack in and buy All The Palm Oil because i slipped up once or twice.

I remember reading an interview with Peter Gabriel (in Q) in the early 90s and of course it covered South Africa and then the interviewer said "the grapes in this meeting room are Cape Grapes and you've been eating them" like some kind of GOTCHA! at PG. And Gabriel said, rightly, that we can't control everything but if most people avoid the thing most of the time it is enough. Not everything is in your control.

The playing life of a footballer is relatively short, but it has been the majority of their waking moments from the time they're picked up by a club at age 7 or so. They work hard to be as good as they can and the best are selected for their national teams. If they refuse to play, their licence could be revoked as a sanction. Career over. Individual players don't choose where the competition is held. They are young men, and they may not care. They may care deeply but care about their career and their earnings for the rest of their lives. and everything in between. They might be homophobic twats who don't care about dead workers.

So there is no single line of thought (the Germans, typically, have a player committee who discussed and decided on the gesture they made, a yellow card could cock up their chances in the tournament, it's a risk that has consequences. - may not matter for them now anyway)

Nobody is perfect. Nobody can take a stand about everything. And even if you do take a stand, it doesn't have to be your hill to die on.

I think footballers making political points should be their own personal choice. Primarily they are there to play a sport and need to focus on that.

However, they should be aware that as role models and celebrities their words and actions can influence, but it's entirely up to them (other than what they might be required to do or not do contractually) whether they choose to exercise that influence and how they do so. Marcus Rashford, for example, had great effect with his campaign to feed children in the school holidays and while schools were closed.

There is something of a hypocrisy in wearing armbands in support of LGBT+ when not one single male player in league football is openly gay, to my knowledge. Not that everyone should be required to declare their sexuality in the press or whatever these days, but you might think, statistically that there would be several guys in each squad who goes out with guys, not girls, or indeed both.

Obviously the situation in Qatar is much worse, but the FA and Premier League - and indeed UEFA and FIFA - as I can't imagine the situation is much better across Europe or in other football-playing nations - need to get their own houses in order and it takes a lot more than paying lip service to wearing an arm band to encourage diversity and openness in sexuality.

When the world cup was held in England, being gay was a punishable crime. Thankfully we have come a long way in the last 56 years, but we are far from perfect.

My feeling is that maybe one or two players might come out after the competition. We'll see.

also "lack of discussion about the environmental impact". Where do you hang out? I've seen plenty.