Kids still feeling the effects of lockdowns…

[sloanedanger]

I just got caught reading a really interesting thread on Twitter started by a teacher:

“Is anyone else thinking we are starting to see the impact of 2 years of disruption and time at home, due to COVID 19, in schools? Extreme behaviours? Some pupils very emotional and struggling to regulate? Low attendance compared to normal? Winter bugs hitting hard?”

A lot of the comments say Y3 is the worst, others saying Years 7 and 8.

My DS is in Year 2 and often struggles with emotions and self regulation at school. It’s made me think, perhaps there’s a reason why linked to the pandemic. Lockdown was hard, DP and I were home with very young DC, trying to work, poor mental health, emotions high. Very little patience.

I’m not surprised, they missed those absolutely vital months and years.

My ds is yr 4 and it’s not much better for that class - they did get reception as normal but missed such a big chunk of yr 1 and 2.

@orchid220

"but you can't force people to teach them. If there were no teachers because they didn't fancy being severely ill with covid the schools would shut down "

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Ah but the majority of teachers were willing to teach and didn't want the schools closed. All the teachers did want was proper safeguarding measures such as masks in classes (which eventually came in anyway).

No, you don’t seem to understand. Under 12s were the last the be vaccinated (many haven’t been)- Covid is a mild illness for most children thank goodness. So I will stand by the argument that the consequences of missing education for months and months is far greater than a child catching Covid.
As we have seen the evidence for now.

Therefore schools, in my mind, were always safe. Because children will all get Covid over and over again. And they will build immunity (without vaccines). Yes we needed the vaccines for the rest of the population.

We should have prioritised schools and education. Not pubs and garden centres and golf courses. Anyone arguing otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

That was to @orchid220

Thank you, and the same to your loved ones.

Therefore schools, in my mind, were always safe. Because children will all get Covid over and over again. And they will build immunity (without vaccines). Yes we needed the vaccines for the rest of the population.

and develop long covid and other serious health conditions as a result? Yup sounds "safe"

Children are not the only people in schools. Believe it or not there are also quite a few adults present and some may have been vulnerable to covid. Plus most children with covid would infect adults in their house who may be vulnerable.

@TigerRag Are you stuck in 2020? Everyone has been exposed to Covid. Most people have had it multiple times. Newsflash it’s not going anywhere..

Bizarre post.

My children thrived during lockdown, when the first lockdown hit I gave birth to my youngest that day (just missing the restrictions on birthing) and my eldest turned 7 a week later.

We both WFH self employed anyway so that stayed the same, but juggling it all with a newborn and our eldest at home was a bit much, we did the absolute bare minimum of school work, and none in the first part of it iirc.

My eldest started the lock down struggling with biff & chip books, and ended it reading Harry potter. The time away from forced learning, and reading/spelling the things he needed to in order to play the games or watch the videos he wanted to seemed to make reading finally click for him!

My youngest obviously had no idea what was going on, I don't do groups and stuff anyway so it was a fairly normal baby stage for him, except not getting to know his grandparents until bubbles were introduced (we live across the country so couldn't just pop round on the sly).

My eldest did struggle with friend groups, one of his best friends continued to home school until the new school year this year and he found that very difficult, they still don't seem as close as they once were, and this friend seems much more shy now than before

And that makes it ok?

Are people also forgetting there are vulnerable children in schools too? Oh silly me, no one cares about them

I have a year 3 and he’s an only child. It was an awful time and while he seems ok now I really worry that the awful disruption to his schooling will have a long term effect. He’s now having to face the effect of a hugely demoralised under paid teaching staff and schools crumbling under a funding crisis.

Its dreadful all round

But most people have had Covid multiple times. We kind of realised that was inevitable. Funnily enough you can’t stop a virus spreading. (Unless complete permanent lockdown).

@orchid220

"I appreciate that many people on here don't think that their children should have been inconvenienced in anyway just to save the lives of those they consider unimportant (not just of the elderly but also those with underlying conditions) "

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It's not a question of inconvenience. It's was always going to be a hard choice but the choice was to save the lives of the elderly and CEV, at a price of a greater loss of life at a later point (I.e now):

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-excess-deaths-higher-now-than-during-covid/

Plus mental health issues, lost education, greater poverty, missed education, less funding for services including schools and overall a lower quality of future life for young people with 70 to 80 life years ahead of them.

Presumably you were happy with this choice? Of course you could argue that "hey should we have just let the old and vulnerable die?" but equally "hey should we just let a greater number of people die now particularly those with a greater number of life years ahead of them ".

I get it was a really horrible choice to make but unfortunately that was what it was.

@TigerRag

"And that makes it ok?

Are people also forgetting there are vulnerable children in schools too? Oh silly me, no one cares about them"

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To be blunt for vulnerable children in school, right now I would be more worried about rising flu cases which present a much greater danger to vulnerable school children than Covid ever did.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-63341574.amp

And yes I would seriously at least consider re introducing face masks to prevent this.

Vaccines are amazing. But at some point these will wear off.(and immunity will take over)

I have seen in real life and on here many who thought they were ‘vulnerable’ to Covid caught it and were fine. Including FIL who hid himself away claiming he would die if he caught it then had a mild cold with it. Sadly his health deteriorated significantly due to him being too scared to even go for a walk outside. Such fear mongering.

I know the vaccines helped make it a less severe disease for many whilst we built up immunity. But I think Covid is far more random than we believe (and has more of a genetic element to it in terms of seriousness). So many of those who thought they were vulnerable were actually not.

And yes I would be far more worried about flu for vulnerable children. On the news last night that there are record rates of hospitalisations. RSV is bad in young children and again is a far greater threat to them than Covid ever was.

This is all thanks to a lack of immunity due to lockdowns. The gift that keeps on giving.

I think there will be an impact for a while. My 14yo (year 10), has recently started counselling as she’s struggling with depression, self harm and suicidal thoughts. I think her first two years of secondary school having so much home learning definitely had a major impact on forming strong friendship bonds.

It was government policy on lockdowns that shut the schools. Nothing to do with crappy mitigations that have been shown to do f all.

Ignoring the DfE evidence posted upthread where schools who introduced masks had significantly fewer absences due to covid.

The government had to close schools in Jan 2021 because they tried a lockdown with schools open in Nov 2020 and it wasn’t effective enough at bringing down the death rate because the highest level of infection was in school children.

Anyone still trying to claim that covid didn’t spread effectively in schools is presumably being wilfully thick.

I’m not claiming Covid didn’t spread in schools. It still is. But nobody cares.

I’m claiming anyone who thinks we could stop the spread (without harmful lockdowns) is being wilfully thick and not understanding what everyone on this thread is saying. You got your face masks anyway so what is the problem? I can’t remember what else you wanted.

The harm of lockdowns and missing education and socialising was far greater than the spread of Covid for children.

We treated children appallingly.

You making all about yourself again @noblegiraffe doesn’t change this fact.

Maybe go back and read through the thread if you’ve failed to understand the impact this has had on children.

Schools should have been open for far longer than they were. (In my mind they should never have closed at all).

Schools closed in Jan 2021 because the government pushed the second wave in to Winter by keeping everything shut down for too long. That was the issue. Of course Covid spread everywhere when we opened up.

You making all about yourself again @noblegiraffe doesn’t change this fact.

Maybe go back and read through the thread and realise it was the posters telling me I was rewriting history or shouldn’t be posting here that made it about me.

The harm of lockdowns and missing education and socialising was far greater than the spread of Covid for children.

You seem to think that children exist in a vacuum when it comes to covid, spreading it amongst themselves with no impact on the wider population.

I’m not claiming Covid didn’t spread in schools. It still is. But nobody cares.

People do care, absence due to covid is still an issue. But the people who care work in schools so can be safely ignored, right?

Can I just ask about the Year 3s and people saying that's the worst affected group because they missed Years 1 and 2... in most countries children don't go to school until they are 6-7 years old. I personally didn't start school until I was 7. I actually think starting school at 4 is way too young. So I'm surprised that year group has been so badly affected.

Formal schooling may start later but peer socialisation for children is apparent. Knowing personally from family in Germany I googled anyway to see if it was backed up

In Germany, 94% of 3-year-olds and 98% of 4-year-olds participate in pre-primary education (ISCED 02), which is well above the OECD average

Do you care about flu @noblegiraffe or the Norovirus that is going around? It’s not about Covid anymore. But sadly we are still seeing the impact on children. Covid really isn’t the worst virus around. That’s what I mean when it’s not a worry for people. If I was a teacher I’d be far more worried about flu right now.

That’s my exact point. Children do not exist in a vacuum. So an adult is just as likely to pick up Covid in a workplace/ on a bus/ at a party and give it to a child as a child pick it up at school and give it to an adult in the home. Viruses spread. That’s what they do. Rates in schools reflected rates in the local
community. We need to judge whether our response was proportional to the threat and was focused on the right demographic.

Children were disproportionately affected by the ongoing school closures. And we are still seeing the impact.

Children missing pre-school and seeing friends and family. Toddler groups. Mother and baby meetings. None of these happened. That will have had a profound impact on those young children. Plus the lack of immunity that they have now to many common childhood illnesses.

@XelaM , you’re quite right. But the expectations here are different for children in school than they would be in other countries.

So the expectations in Year 3, academically, will be the same as pre-pandemic for children who’ve had three years of uninterrupted education, whereas this cohort have had two very interrupted first years (when much more of the curriculum is play-based). Understandably, a lot of these children are struggling.