Child suffering - no doctor's appointments

[cofingalthetime]

So a friend's little boy aged 3 had a cold that hasn't gotten better - he has a chesty cough, and his eyes are very very sore with green gunk - obviously conjunctivitis. She just cannot get a doctor's appointment. Last night she rang 111 and they said they would send an ambulance, but it would take 6 hours so she took him to A&E but after 5 hours, without even seeing a triage nurse, she brought him home again. On the phone to the doc again this morning, and no appointments. I've just seen the little boy - he's totally listless lying on the sofa, his eyes glued together, breathing sounds awful and his cough is terrible. He just needs some antibiotics? She tried the pharmacist but he would only give her a cough medicine. My friend herself sounds terrible, with an awful cough and she looks terrible, I think she has a chest infection. This must be being duplicated across the whole country - I can imagine people ending up in hospital with pneumonia because they couldnt see a doctor. What should she do... I said maybe go to the surgery with the child so they can see how sick he is...?

I wonder if people might find these resources helpful:

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng143/resources/support-for-education-and-learning-educational-resource-traffic-light-table-pdf-6960664333

It's the 'traffic light system' showing what signs are particularly worrying in children

This may also be useful:
www.cambridgeshireandpeterboroughccg.nhs.uk/easysiteweb/getresource.axd?assetid=7426&type=0&servicetype=1

It's an up to date (2022) and comprehensive guide on how to treat childhood illnesses and when to worry/seek help

I expect they weren't shouting. Why would they be shouting? It's true that people deteriorate during the wait.

I had one (appointment) today as I've got pretty severe pain near my ovary and also one kidney
The GP can't do anything except send me for vaginal swabs (6th dec first appointment) and refer me for scans (months apparently)
They've told me to go to a&e to get scanned because of my pain level

So if your baby is turning blue before your eyes you would shout for help? You'd just sit and wait your four hours whilst your baby with a heart condition desats and turns cyanotic?

It is really worrying how bad access to health care has got this year - I hold the government responsible and it is a real concern to me.

If your child is that sick, you don't leave a&e! 🤷‍♀️ she either wants him to be seen or she doesn't.

I hope your friend is getting some help for her son. The NHS is beyond broken, I work in it and see it every day. This is what the government wanted, they are making no attempt to save it. Eventually we turn on each other. I understand your friend is unwell but I would have still waited in A&E, I took my daughter twice recently and we had to wait hours, after the first visit I knew what to expect.

Regarding GP it is now normal to wait weeks to speak to a GP, ours rarely offer face to face, the government target is, max 2 week wait for GP appointment, so I guess that's the minimum time frame now. People will die but unless it's the really young or very obvious we won't know about it, that will then become the norm.

We accept lower and lower standards and are greatful for anything. It's very scary.

And if Mom was too ill to wait, or too ill to think straight, what excuse does his father have for not staying?

Agreed it is very scary. And for any mums reading this - please don't be fobbed off if your gut instinct is telling you something is not right with your child. When my dd was 4, 15 years ago now, a friend of mine's child died as she was fobbed off, and didn't want to make a fuss, and was told it was 'viral', was patronised and told she was overly concerned - yes her dd died in hospital from meningitis which would have been very treatable if the doctors had listened to her. I am sure this is happening all over the country. I am one of those people who never go to the doctor, and have left my children suffer, and then felt so bad when I brought them and was told it was a chest infection, or in one case to bring my ds to hospital straight away. We need to get away from this viral, treat at home with paracetemol and fluids - which is fine for MILD illnesses, but for me, dont take chances.

Rather ridiculous to leave A&E

I hope your friends child gets the treatment soon and they both start feeling better soon.

I wonder if people might find these resources helpful:

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng143/resources/support-for-education-and-learning-educational-resource-traffic-light-table-pdf-6960664333

It's the 'traffic light system' showing what signs are particularly worrying in children

This guidance is for HCPs. This is not appropriate guidance for families to use to make decisions about whether to seek healthcare or not.

Me too. Grandson admit over night last week, with this type of chest infection

An ambulance? For conjunctivitis and a cough?

No wonder the NHS is on its knees.

I’m in Spain and right now it’s in the news how a lot of winter viruses (other than Covid) seem to all have come early this year and hospitals are admitting a lot of babies and young children with bronchiolitis/bronchitis who need treatment, so even if it’s a virus it doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be treated by HCPs.

I hope your friend’s child gets seen asap.

It sounds like our healthcare hugely varies depending on the area you are in. I’m in the south west and my 14 month old DS has been seen the same day by the GP and pretty rapidly in A&E (we’ve been 4 times in the last month) with similar symptoms to your friends child.

The fact she can’t get an appointment or get her child seen in A&E is obviously appalling but I can’t help but wonder if she did everything to push for her DC to be seen urgently? I’d be worried sick and even after a relatively short wait in a&e have asked reception how long until my sick child can be seen.

I agree with the other PP’s that she should not have left and she needs to go back or call 111 again and take their advice.

I find it unbelievable that she waited 5 hours to see a triage nurse. You see them first to decide what order you are seen by the doctors.

My DH recently had a stroke and we were sent by ambulance to a&e. We were there 12 hours and they kept him in. So going by ambulance is no guarantee you'll be seen quickly.
He's now home but has had a couple of issues that he's needed to see the gp for and both times appt were offered for the middle December. I was practically crying on the phone to get him seen and he was offered a cancellation, funny that they were suddenly available. It's appalling that we had to beg to be seen but I feel lucky that we were eventually seen.

I still have no idea why you would leave A&E!

I recently spent 10 hours twice within a few days of each other, with admission in between for RSV and it was awful but you don’t leave if your child is ill.
If she is worried about him she needs to take him to A&E if she can’t get a drs appointment.

One of the times a couple came in with a baby, commented on how busy it was and left within minutes! If you can turn up and immediately leave you don’t need to be clogging up A&E in the first place.

I think it's a postcode lottery
My DD was recently ill
We had two doctors phone calls and 2 face to face doctor appointments
All within a week as they weren't quite sure what was wrong
They requested to see her as the doctor said to me 'parents know best and I like to listen to their concerns' as I was worried
Unfortunately I don't think this is the norm for gp surgery and ours is exceptional

Yet our a&e is on its knees and ambulances take multiple hours to arrive if at all
Definitely get the mum to press and make a fuss, he's obviously not right!

Also in todays news, the number of people attending the NHS gambling clinics has risen by 42% in the last year. The people pitching to run the services reckon that 4% of the population need to attend such a clinic. That’s a lot of facilities and staff to fund and man.

@cofingalthetime We need to get away from this viral, treat at home with paracetemol and fluids - which is fine for MILD illnesses, but for me, dont take chances.

No you’re conflating two things here. Viral doesn’t mean not serious, it means it’s not caused by a bacterial infection and therefore antibiotics are not needed. It doesn’t mean the condition itself is mild and doesn’t ever need treatment. There is nothing wrong with explaining that something is viral and explaining that antibiotics are not going to work.

And it's comments like this that can lead to tragedies, like my friend's dd who died age 5 after being given exactly the same 'brush off' by her gp's receptionist and then later her own gp

I'm not saying you are but we can't blame the poor parent who just wants treatment for their sick child.

Yes, it's horrendous to be forced to go to A&E for this but it is indicative of how much the NHS is struggling that the poor parent has had to consider this their only option to get badic treatment.

You can buy eye drops for conjunctivitis over the counter. Has she done this? It’s cleared my conjunctives bouts up every time and I’ve never needed to go to the doctor about it. The chesty cough is a different matter of course.