Child suffering - no doctor's appointments

[cofingalthetime]

So a friend's little boy aged 3 had a cold that hasn't gotten better - he has a chesty cough, and his eyes are very very sore with green gunk - obviously conjunctivitis. She just cannot get a doctor's appointment. Last night she rang 111 and they said they would send an ambulance, but it would take 6 hours so she took him to A&E but after 5 hours, without even seeing a triage nurse, she brought him home again. On the phone to the doc again this morning, and no appointments. I've just seen the little boy - he's totally listless lying on the sofa, his eyes glued together, breathing sounds awful and his cough is terrible. He just needs some antibiotics? She tried the pharmacist but he would only give her a cough medicine. My friend herself sounds terrible, with an awful cough and she looks terrible, I think she has a chest infection. This must be being duplicated across the whole country - I can imagine people ending up in hospital with pneumonia because they couldnt see a doctor. What should she do... I said maybe go to the surgery with the child so they can see how sick he is...?

But not so listless that the mother would seek proper help @HappyHamsters Most kids are listless with a rough viral infection.

This page includes 'listlessness' as a sign of possible serious illness: www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/health/is-your-baby-or-toddler-seriously-ill/ and suggests the child should be seen, via 111 if the GP not open - if 111 advised A&E, then A&E is reasonable.

It is not acceptable for randoms to suggest people should ignore the guidance of 111.

I did read that. A chesty cough does make it difficult to breathe though. Therefore:rest. Does Mum have a pulse ox measuring device? Can she get one?

Listless is normal when ill.

Listless is different to just being quiet and is not common - my child has been ill plenty of times, only listless once.

@carefulcalculator

Your reference is for babies & toddlers - that is infants under 3. This child is passed that stage.

Your advice seems to be that parents should ignore 111 if they advise a child needs to be seen - this is not sensible.

Im sorry this is happening to your friend, but from experience she NEEDS to get him seen.

My daughter started off this way and after being unwell for 6 days we scopped her up and took her to a&e where she was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis and was on IV antibiotics for 10 days, she was lucky.

If a child isnt moving much, seems irritable and randomly crying all the time he must be seen, go to A&E.

Family member is currently in hospital with pneumonia. Coughing, breathing issues going on for MONTHS with doctors fobbing her off, appointments 30 plus weeks out, one doctor (locum replacing her actual GP) refused to see her in person and mocked her with "we can't always get what we want" on the phone, another (random doctor via 111) was cheerily dismissive as she has COPD so "you must expect it to get worse" (his tone was disgusting and I made a complaint). One very good doctor (the only woman we've seen) realised she's got something amiss with family member's heart - booked an appointment... four months after the appointment as that's the only one available Family member couldn't stand up at the weekend, said she couldn't breathe any more. Finally FINALLY someone listened and she is now on an IV taking copious antibiotics and the angelic nurses on the ward are deeply concerned as to WHY she wasn't listened to.

stargirl1701 · Today 12:46
Conjunctivitis www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/

Cough www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/health/colds-coughs-and-ear-infections-in-children/

Poorly child www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/health/looking-after-a-sick-child/

The child in question is over 3 years old.

@Stargirl1701
You've overlooked the fact that the child is struggling to breathe?
I don't know what planet you're on, thinking that breathing difficulties are not worthy of medical attention from a qualified person!
What qualifications do you have that exceed the 111 assessment that an ambulance should be dispatched?
It's simply dangerous to give advice such as you have.

Sorry for that rant but my point is your friend MUST keep nagging, badgering, repeatedly calling 111, etc. Do so on her behalf if you can. The NHS is falling apart and no one is listening.

Absolutely agree with this, 3 children and only ever had one that was listless.

I would sit my daughter next to me on the couch and she would slump/lie down, this needs to be seen by a health professional

For the eyes, if she goes into a pharmacy with a photo of his eyes, the pharmacist can sell her antibiotic eye drops without prescription. I’ve done this several times, twice I had a supermarket pharmacist say no so I just drove to a different pharmacy who said yes.

For the rest of it has she googled to see where her nearest minor injuries wlk in clinic is? Queue may be better there.

Or to avoid A&E queues she can spend £50 and get an internet consultation with a private GP who then emails her the prescription. I’ve done this for my child and it is brilliant.

NHS broken Britain is now on pay as you go private healthcare 😥

@stargirl1701 your advice is poor and shitty, how dare you make someone seem dramatic for taking their child to a&e. I took my daughter last year with similar symptoms, the Dr brushed me off and sent us home. I took her back the next morning, she was admitted with Pneumonia and treated with iv antibiotics, oxygen etc. A mother knows her child best

OP I hope your friends child is seen to soon, if they can't get an app today I'd be taking the child back the hospital

Most of the infections children get are viral, so antiobiotics have zero effect.

One of my kids was literally in intensive care with a respiratory condition and was still not given antibiotics because the swab test had shown they had RSV, a virus, so antibiotics were pointless.

Their eyes were completely crusted closed with it. We weren't given any drops, just told to clean regularly with cooled boiled water.

Purely regarding the conjunctivitis- you can get the antibiotic drops over the counter from a pharmacy for a child over 2.

This isn't true, most pharmacists will not hand them out, i tried to get some last month for one of my DC and was turned away from 3 pharmacies on grounds its usually viral.

If the child really is listless and/or working to breathe, your friend should not have left A&E. Also, they triage in A&E and the fact that the child wasnt seen more quickly suggests its not as urgent as you might think. When mine have been seriously ill, you skip all queues etc. The one who ended up in intensive care, was assessed within 10 minutes of arriving at A&E and was on a ward on oxygen within 30 minutes.

Just take the child back to A&E. I took my LO in the daytime and paeds was not at all busy and she was seen by a doctor and consultant in minutes. Listlessness and breathing difficulties is a big red flag.

Last time my DD was listless with breathing difficulties her o2 sats were 80% and she was rushed to A&E in an ambulance with blue flashing lights. She spent 3 days in hospital on oxygen.

Your advice is dangerous.

Shit that it's hard to get a GP appt, but she had every opportunity to have her chins seen at A&E, but decided to leave instead, so she couldn't have been that worried. I think I'm lucky in that I am always seen pretty much within 24 hours by my GP. Same applied throughout covid. Frustrating that others have not had the same experience. Keep pestering GP, phone 111 and if no appointments, it is what it is and back to a&e.

Stargirl1701 is a primary school teacher, it seems 🙄

@RaRaRaspoutine that sounds horrific. I really believe there is a crisis in general practice - I know we hear about it on the news every day and we have become used to these awful scenes and waits in A&E and it's become normal not to be able to see a GP and to be derided for knowing when you or your child is sick and needs to be seen. We are way past the point of going to the doctor 'just to see'. I know I should see a doc about different things, but put it off and off as I know it's virtually impossible. When you think about this being replicated across the country it's actually scary. My friend ended up going to the gp and politely insisting on waiting to be seen. Not to forget this child has been sick for more than 2 weeks, and I believe once the 'goo' in the nose and eyes turns green, and listless, and a deep cough with green sputum, is bacterial. It's def not viral any more. As evidenced by 111 offering to send an ambulance

Err this. An ambulance for those symptoms is pretty ridiculous right now

Plus go to the chemists for some eye drops. Last time l had an eye infection l went to the chemists and got drops. Seemed kind of pointless to go to the GP to be told l had an eye infection when it was obvious

What if 25 people decide to do the same?
They may make an exception for a child but it's not feasible to see everyone who just rocks up, however politely.
What about the GP's home visits, often for the most poorly/dying, afternoon clinic etc?
I work in general practice and we make it quite clear we are not a walk in service. Unless everyone with a planned appointment wants to sit and wait three hours after all the squeeze ins.

I believe once the 'goo' in the nose and eyes turns green, and listless, and a deep cough with green sputum, is bacterial.

I presume you aren't a health professional. This is a myth. There is basically no way to identify a bacterial infection from a viral infection except a swab test.

@stargirl1701 you've given some really dangerous 'advice'. People like you shouldn't say anything at all.

Having been in A&E recently with my own child, and having heard what my friend says, I think there's some seriously dangerous things going on - a baby with a heart condition who was turning blue was left sit for over 4 hours?

Why won't pharmacists give out the eye drops? I'm thinking I might order some online. I've had conjunctivitis a few times in my life and it was only the antibiotic drops that cleared it - the cooled boiled water helps the symptoms, but doesnt kill off the infection. I would have had the infection for weeks without the drops clearing it up.

That's reassuring! The idea a teacher (if true) would be advising parents to ignore a health danger sign (listlessness) is rather odd.