New baby and working the whole time

[Sleepless1096]

NC for this as it could be identifying. I'm interested to know what people think about this situation.

2 DC - a 6 year old and 5 week old baby.

Husband works 5 days a week and usually some of the weekend as well. Working hours are extremely long at the moment - he usually works from 9am until 1 or 2am the following morning. Sometimes even later. Usually back home around 2/3am. Since the baby arrived, he's done the school run in the morning for the 6 year old, although this makes things stressful with work sometimes, especially getting there on time for any 9am meetings. He does have significant control over his work schedule though. Husband has been averaging 4 hours sleep a night since the baby came (before that, he'd sleep in until 8am and usually got an extra hour of sleep).

Wife works freelance (usually 10-15 hours per week), is doing some studying (5-10 hours per week) and does everything except the morning school run for the DC during the week. Wife does all night wakings (breastfed baby), makes packed lunches and sorts school bag, sorts school uniform, gets 6yo up and dressed in the morning, takes baby to medical appointments (there's a few medical issues), attends school events, does school pick-up, takes 6yo to afterschool swimming and football, supervises homework every night and does dinner and bed and bath. Baby fusses in the evening and wakes at least every 3-4 hours during the night. Wife does almost all the housework, cooking, shopping, DC admin etc.

At weekends, husband will sleep in until 12/1pm to catch up on sleep. Wife gets breakfast for 6yo, feeds the baby, tidies up, does the laundry etc. When husband gets up, they usually go out somewhere as a family or husband will take the DC out so wife can have a nap. Husband helps with dinner, bath and bedtime on weekend evenings, and will do shopping, laundry and other chores if asked to. Wife still does all the night wakings.

Last saturday, 6yo was invited to a 9am party at a forest adventure park (parents expected to attend). Wife wanted to leave the 5 week old with husband (with expressed milk) so she could concentrate on spending one-on-one time with the 6yo. Husband refused, saying he was too tired to look after the baby safely. Wife took baby along to the party but found it quite hard going caring for both and running after the 6yo with the buggy (still physically recovering from the birth)

Who was being unreasonable?

What happens when husband burnsout or gets a mental or physical health issue due to working insane hours and not sleeping enough?

Humans need 7or so hours sleep for the brain to metabolise the waste products of the day and over time your brain gets slower and slower and more filled with "waste" that it starts malfunctioning.

You said he's actually upped his hours since the baby came along.

How necessary do you believe that to be, or is he just avoiding family life?

I agrée with everyone, your husband’s hours are ridiculous.

Assuming you can only be the wife, as the husband wouldn’t be able to describe what you do in such details. He’d just say “oh she looks after the children”.

I do think one of your should have taken the six yr old and the other the baby.

Also, getting the lie ins on the weekend and then being fit and rested to take the kids out for a nice time is BY FAR the better side of the deal than being woken up all night, up early with kids and then having a nap in the afternoon. That way you slog through the morning feeling terrible but he gets the afternoon feeling nice and fresh!

If he is working such long hours then presumably he is earning lots of money. If neither of you are prepared to lower your working hours then pay for a nanny to look after the children in the day so that you can sleep, work and study. Pay for a cleaner too. Your current set up is ridiculous.

I'm exhausted just from reading your posts!
This is in no way sustainable surely? Something has to give either the husbands job or the studying and freelance work for now. You are both going to end up frazzled. You can't possibly have any quality time to yourselves, it's no way to life unless it's for the very short term.

Does the max work schedule come with very good money? If so I'd be tempted to leave the freelance stuff for a bit and take some maternity leave.

Can we just be clear about the law around working hours? You can opt out of the 48 hour week but not out of the 11 hour gap except under extreme circumstances (e.g. a paramedic in the middle of saving someone's life). It shouldn't be a regular thing. If he is an employee or has worker status, they are breaking the law.

If he works out of the home, are you sure he is where he says he is? Sorry to say this, but it sounds suspicious that he's working such ridiculous hours and out so late all the time.

Both of you for having 2 DC in those circs. Something urgently needs to give.

You're both being unreasonable for thinking this set-up is even remotely sustainable.

Why is he working such crazy hours?

My husband worked hours like this when we had a newborn and an 18 month old.

I am a SAHM with no other responsibilities than the house and children.

It was hellish.

DH was always ill and exhausted I was wiped out by the situation too.

In the end we got a part time nanny, and DH cut back on his hours.

What you've described, and what I experienced, isn't living, its existing

What job requires hours such as this? Is he an emergency doctor?
Genuine question.
To the poster who said both her and her husband work 8 am to 10pm with a toddler, where is the child, and would you even see them daily?
I think people exaggerate their hours.

@MrsMorrisey banking and City law for starters. This is why they get paid so much.

@whateverintheworld no money can be worth not having any quality time with your DC in a working day. When do you and your DH actually have time with your toddler

We alternate days WFH and the person WFH does 7-8am with our toddler and 5-7pm with our toddler after nursery. That person then works extra hours at night to make up for it. We manage our own workloads so it doesn’t matter when the work is done as long as it’s done. I’m afraid there’s no exaggeration around hours and anyone who works in the city will know this. I wish we didn’t have this lifestyle and we’ve looked at one of us stepping back but with the economic climate right now neither of our jobs are stable enough to rely on solely. We have an incredible nursery and grandparents who help us. We protect our weekends fiercely and work in the weekend evenings if needed.

We need more context here.

Is father in extremely highly paid job where these hours are the norm and completely predictable that taking paternity/annual leave is impossible?

Or do you both need to work to feed your children/heat house?

Either the husband gets paid a huge amount to do a job that requires him to be out of the house for 17 hours per day, he is being exploited or he is managing his own business which cannot be sustained.

His wife did not have this baby on her own... it is unreasonable to expect her to take on everything.

It is not unreasonable for her to find time to keep her career alive during maternity leave if that is what she wants to do... the children's father is absent for most of the time prioritising his work and his sleep. The burden of parenting already falls unequally on women (pregnancy, childbirth and maternity), unless she is proactive, it will continue to have a disproportionate impact on her as her husband works double hours and either drives his business forward or increases his earning potential. If he is doing neither of these things, he is a fool and should find another job.

Can they afford help? A full time mother's help to do morning preparation, house work, look after baby while mother works and maybe even an au pair as well to help with bath and bed.

If they can't afford help... he needs to find another job that requires fewer hours.

Both husband and wife are clearly working to the limit and are both exhausted. Something has to give I think.

Working until 1/2am and only averaging 4 hours of sleep is unsustainable in the long term. Even if the husband catches up on the weekend, it will still create problems and resentment about who is more tired and gets more rest. Weekends then become more about resting and arguing rather than using the time to spend as a family etc.

Both husband and wife need to step back and reevaluate. Is there any way the husband can cut back his hours so he gets more sleep. Even if he comes home by 10pm he can slot in an extra couple of hours and that can make all the difference.

I 100% understand the importance of working, but honestly your kids are young and this is the time to spending with them. My husband’s father worked constantly when he was a child, and to this day he still says he barely remembers his dad being around. Obviously some context is needed as to your exact situation so your responses will not be completely accurate.

There is a balance to be had here and both husband and wife need to work something out so there is time to work, time to rest, and time to spend with the kids and themselves.

I assume he's a lawyer and should hopefully be earning good money.
Outsource as much as possible. Cleaner, online shopping, get someone to pick up DC from school. Do playdate swaps with friends, at the weekend too.
Given the situation you are in, you are doing as much as possible.
Don't forget when you get older you are hardly likely to think I wished I had worked more, but will think I wish I had seen the kids more.

I think you are both being unreasonable. Mat leave exists for a reason so 10 to 15 hours studying and freelancing is nearly a full time job.

DH hours are ridiculous but if he's bringing in the cash then use it for a cleaner and nanny to support you.

Your both doing 'you' and the children sound second fiddle.

Thank you all for your views, which have been very helpful.

To answer a few questions –

Husband works in finance. He earns a decent salary but a large chunk of this is discretionary. Husband definitely thinks it is necessary to work the hours that he does as his job is project-based and projects just need to be finished by certain deadlines. Husband is not particularly career-driven by the standard of those around him but is very conscientious and can’t leave anything that he doesn’t think is perfect.

The wife had a similarly well-paid job before DC1, but this also had no flexibility for family life so she has been working on and off since DC1 was born, alongside studying and retraining for a job which will allow her to take school holidays off to spend with the DC. If she manages to complete everything for this and return to work when DC2 is a year old, she’ll be earning a slightly higher than average salary. She’s hoping to go back to work 3 days a week at the start.

Expenses are relatively high although affordable on the husband’s income. No family help and an expensive mortgage (not for a huge house – just a 3-bed terraced family house in a fairly central location that the husband can commute from). Hoping to move to a 4-bed in the next couple of years to allow for a live-in nanny when wife returns to work full-time, so saving for this. Previously had a cleaner but they left and haven’t been replaced yet – the wife finds tidying up for the cleaner an additional stress on top of everything else. They could probably afford more help but finding the right type of help for what they need is quite difficult.

Husband was very keen on having a second child and made some statements about what he could do (wfh 2 days a week, finish early to help with bedtime once a week etc.) which were perhaps unwise and haven’t materialised. Husband did think he would get the 6 weeks off but recent events mean that his job is busier and more stressful than it has ever been. We’ve discussed a complete change in lifestyle, but going ahead with our proposed plan doesn’t make sense in an economic downturn.

I think neither are being unreasonable. It’s much safer your husband said he was too tired to look after the 6 week old than he fall asleep with the baby and something terrible happen so don’t be upset about that. Other options could have been asking DC’s friends parents to take them to the party, having a 6 week old is a valid reason for this.

In the long term something has to give, my close friends husband used to have a similar job to your husband in finance, she basically couldn’t return to work until youngest was at school. Unfortunately your options seem limited, ride it out until you can go back to work then he can look at changing jobs with reduced hours or you also go back to work more now to allow him to do it.

So reading update I think you need to lower expectations. Husband needs to do his job well but maybe not so perfectly (hard to do I know). Wife needs to not worry about cleaning up for a cleaner. Pay them an extra hour to tidy if it's that bad.
My DH and I worked in finance. We both couldnt do it with children and hours so I stopped working. However this meant I did a lot more around the house. He never worked to 2am though. He quit his job when he started having to work regularly past 8pm and his MH couldnt take it anymore.

Husband needs to push back in work more. Hours are ludicrous and unnecessary and unsustainable.

Wife needs to accept she has consciously chosen to be the main childcarer (retraining etc) and that this will feel hard and involved more compromise on her part.

The 6-year-old’s party is a total red herring.

The real issue is - is this the family life you both envisaged? If not, what can you both change?