David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

My DNA is 99.4% Jewish.

My family tree shows Jewish relatives going back many generations.
I'm a non-practising / secular / atheist Jew - always needs explaining to new friends and often challenged.

Poor education in the UK as to what a Jew/being Jewish is or can be, is partly to blame & has led to much ignorance. What is learnt in school is too simplified: "Jewish people do this, and believe in that, and wear this etc..." There are many nuances in being Jewish. It's not black and white.
Many people don't understand that being a Jew can mean one of 3 things:

a) just race
b) both race & religious belief
c) only religious belief (but have to convert)

Wow!

Would you mind sharing with us what events led up to the school needing to put these measures in place?

My DH is of jewish descent on his father's side. He has always said that jews have always been the worlds whipping boys from way back being labelled Christ killers up to the present day. The sympathy they got from the awful holocaust events was all too short lived .His gt grandfather anglacised their surname to avoid persecution .
My late mothers family were Irish and she remembered no Blacks, no Jews , no Irish on signs and l think to a degree Irish are also fair game or have been more so in previous decades for being labelled as thick ,terrorists, tinkers,thieves etc and without it being recognised as racist . I once raised a complaint about a British soldiers wife (l worked in an office near barracks in UK) and she got abusive about my Irish football colours during a world cup . I got laughed out the office yet anyone was even slightly detrimental against the Asian community that worked there, was seriously disciplined.

@HellonHeels but there are many Jews who are against the IHRA definition of antisemitism and argue that it is designed to silence critical conversation about Palestine, so even within the community there are debates about the numbers recorded due to what could have been reported and classed as a hate crime. It’s the same in Muslim communities about certain issues linked to race and religion and I’m sure in other communities too.

Thank you. I thought being Jewish was just religious.

I did know that you could convert or were by being born from a Jewish mother.

I have read of inherited genetic conditions in orthodox Jews so understand now somewhat of the DNA evidence relating to race.

is this a unique situation for Jewish people?
is secular Muslim or secular Catholic prevalent?

please excuse my ignorance.

I was implying absolutely nothing.
I was genuinely surprised as I didn't know that ANY schools in the UK had that level of security.
And whilst of course I know that antisemitism exists and terrorism is slways a risk I didn't know terrorism against Jewish people in the UK was considered such a high risk that schools needed that level of security.
I used to live near Leeds where there are many Jewish people and I don't even know if any Jewish schools exist there.
Why would i?
I also dont know about muslim or hindu faith schools, as an RC i knew about catholic
and C of E schools.
Of course as you're Jewish then you'll be much more aware of any risks to your community.

This isn't true. This post is full of misrepresentations (putting it generously).

You don't speak for Jewish people. You are not Jewish and have been more or less openly hostile towards Jews throughout this thread.

The whole point of the IHRA definition is to draw a distinction between criticising the Israeli government and being antisemitic. Which it clearly does.

Hence, Jewish people and organisations are overwhelmingly in favour of it, and antisemites hate it.

Your posts are full of untruths and I would never dare to speak on behalf of another minority group the way you are doing here
.

@Workerbeep due to the larger populations of Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc they are not considered ethnic groups as they have more diverse genes.

All Jewish schools and synagogues in the UK and elsewhere in Europe have very heavy security, for obvious reasons.

Your faux naivety is very transparent.

@BloodAndFire some people are really that ignorant. They exist in rl as well as online.

Judaism is a non proselytising religion (does not seek or want people to convert to Judaism).

Therefore the overwhelming majority of Jews are closely genetically related. Even Jews who look very different (e.g. the Ethiopian and Indian Jews who have dark skin) turn out to share genetic markers with European/middle Eastern Jews.

Christianity and Islam seek to convert people, and are many many thousands of times larger in terms of number of followers.

I believe that most Sikhs are fairly closely related as it's a recent offshoot and they don't generally seek converts either.

Maybe so, you may be right. I've encountered so much faux naivety online over the past few horrendous years and it sounds fake af to me.

Usually prefaced with "genuine question?"

I've learned not to waste my time but unfortunately got sucked in here today!

Kanye West has been saying offensive things about black people and slavery for years and still had a career, as soon as he said anything anti semetic he lost his social media accounts, most of his brand deals including his Addidas deal worth billions so I’m not sure how accurate this is.

Well you'll have to believe what you want.
As I said I knew there was heavy security in Israel.
Assumed there may be in France because of attacks there.
Had no idea that there was anything other than general security in the UK.

It's interesting that you are so sure you're right about Jews being 'overrepresented' in powerful positions but you can't actually find any, you know, evidence

Just that you thought there were too many of us at Cambridge. Do you realise how that comes across at all?

. I was a Cambridge undergrad back in the day and JSoc had one of the largest memberships of any student clubs; I don't think there is the same over-representation in the student body of the other groups you've mentioned.

I’m not speaking for Jewish people - I’m speaking on experience of knowing Jewish people and being a part of conversations including the one I’ve spoken about above. There are conversations like this happening, you can’t speak for everyone either.

Where on earth have I shown a hostility towards Jews on this thread? I’ve discussed my ties with the Jewish community in my area and how Baddiel’s argument is flawed but that doesn’t make me an antisemite as you’re implying.

Others on here have claimed things about Muslim communities but I haven’t been hostile
in return - I’ve just given my experience to counteract their arguments.

Could you state in clear terms why you think that is?

How would I know?! I was disagreeing with the comment I quoted because from what I’ve seen it’s not true and I gave an EXAMPLE.

You said that many Jewish people think the ihra definition of antisemitism is designed to prevent criticism of Israel.

This is not true. Neither that the definition does that, nor that many Jewish people are opposed to it.

I would not speak on behalf of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.and you have no right to do so on behalf of Jews. I don't speak for all Jews,but you don't speak for any.

That really should be the starting point. Your comment about the ihra is insulting, wrong and ultimately antisemitic, because it implies that Jews have tried to stifle and control other people's speech for nefarious political reasons.

It is not ok.

Kayne West said black people should stop focusing on racism and that racism is a dated concept and silly. He was heavily criticised for it.
But the Jewish equivalent would be saying antisemitism is not an issue. Not being antisemtic.

And to add, being Jewish (without any obvious "giveaways" in terms of clothing or Jewish sounding name etc), is akin to being hidden in plain sight; people often say racist/anti-semitic things in front of me as they haven't worked out that someone in their company could be Jewish, due to ignorance to what being Jewish can be (see my above post)...

The same person would be unlikely to be racist if for eg a black person was present, because they absolutely know that person is black, of course they may still think racist things, but not say them.

So being faced with anti-semitic comments was always confusing as a child - should I say anything or not...keep it a secret or "make a fuss "outing" myself as Jewish is a risk in terms of what reaction I' could get...

Or in a normal non-anti-semitic conversation watch people visibly recoil in horror when I drop into conversation that I'm Jewish...and then often jump straight to "what about Israel?" as a retort - wtf do I have to do with the actions of a government 2000 miles away?!

I hold my hands up to being ignorant of, or maybe naive about is more accurate, the security surrounding Jewish schools. I knew it was needed (sadly and shockingly) at synagogues, but it never occurred to me some people would be so low as to target schools in the UK. I don't have children in the school system and I live in a very white WC area without a large Jewish community, so there are no dedicated schools near me, and I guess I just didn't join the dots before seeing last night's programme. The part about the school drill was the most shocking aspect of a very thought-provoking piece of television IMO.

You can even be Israeli and not support the policies of the state of Israel. Unfortunately, from what I can see, we allow bigots people to use Israeli policies as an excuse to target Jews generally. I'm British. That doesn't mean I support everything that present and past British governments have done.

I've also been with people who've made antisemitic comments and I've had that awful "do I tell them.." moment.

My mum told me when I was very young that she always tried to mention being Jewish as soon as possible to avoid being in that horrendously awkward situation.

How horrible that it should be us who feel so embarrassed and humiliated, rather than those making racist comments. 😔

Yes it never gets easier...can I be bothered to "fight" this one and make them squirm and backtrack, or should I just keep quiet...