How many more women are going to find themselves in this situation ?

[sofrustratedbylackofknowledge]

Thread borne by the sheer amount of posts this week alone, of women who have moved in with wealthier men . Men who own houses solely in their name.. and women who have children with them without a contract of marriage or civil partnership..

The relationship breaks down and the woman is either not working or massively economically disadvantaged compared with their partners .

Made even worst by the courts bias towards shared care rendering CM almost negligible...

Why are women putting themselves in this situation. ?

Marriage has a lot of patriarchal connotations which are 'no go' for some women... but now we have civil partnerships why would you not go for this option .. ? Or is it the man refusing to commit ?

Also really concerned about the massive number of contraception failures . So many women taking the pill finding themselves pregnant and deciding to continue the pregnancy with no legal protection ..is the pill /implant failing ?

Anyone who's ever had a relationship end knows that you can't force a partner to do anything. He could beat you, leave, cheat, become seriously ill or die, you need to protect yourself. Also, not all women can get good enough jobs to support the whole family. Many people are struggling even on two incomes.

Not according to MN, women are forced to do all sorts by malign males on here.

He could beat you, leave, cheat, become seriously ill or die, you need to protect yourself.

Exactly. So you need to make sure that your income won’t drop by a penny, whether he stays or goes.

I.e you need to earn your own, and not rely on his. Married or not.

I mean, that was the second point in my epistle.

Many people are struggling even on two incomes.

Oh totally, like he does need to earn too 😂

Sorry I was unclear. Yeah no family can survive on one income these days! Over half of whatever you both pull in goes on rent anyway 🙄

I'm all for minding my own business when it comes to other women's decisions about their home and family set-up, and am uninterested in their opinions or judgement of mine. This stance would seem to be consistent with the attitude that it's their lives, and if they want to make poor decisions, on their heads be it.

Women are no more incapable of sorting out their own financial security than men are of operating a washing machine and ironing their own shirts. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have more common sense than to leave these things to chance.

Our backward culture also has a lot to answer for with the idea that women should sit pretty and wait for a 'proposal', thereby allowing men to make the major decisions regarding the future structure of both their lives. Why adhere to this backward view of how women should behave? Because it's 'tradition?' IMO passivity does no one any favours and isn't a good model for any relationship. I didn't want to run my adult life on this basis, so didn't. There's a clear choice.

Women should contribute to a private pension the moment they start working - don't rely on the state pension, or your husband's. You need your own for a comfortable retirement

And save really, really hard into that pension, because last week there were posters suggesting that if you have a private pension you should be deprived of the state one.

So we should slog away for 50 years and hardly see our kids just so we end up with a mediocre pension at the end of it? What a depressing life

There are a lot of women in poverty once they get past retirement age, more so than men.

The state pension is not going to cover a nice life. If you have been at home with children then won't even get the full amount.

@PurpleButterflyWings

Oh here we go again! Didn't think it would be long before this drivel was trotted out. 'Single women are much happier than married women' is a myth created by single women to make other single women feel better. It's absolute horseshit and a ludicrous and laughable generalisation that all single women are happier than married women.

Lots to unpick here but just to start:

This claim about single women being happier than married women comes from a misreading of some data from the American Time Use Study in 2019. It's not complete drivel but you're right that its been over-extrapolated. But there is some longitudinal data that backs up the idea that overall marriage benefits men more than women.

But you're missing the broader point. You're right that a lot of single women feel they would be happier married. That doesn't necessarily mean they actually would be happier married. It's a snapshot of attitudes at a time in their lives when they are constantly bombarded with societal pressure that tells them the only worthwhile goal in their lives is to be married with children. A lot of women in their late 20s and early 30s are unhappily single. Many of those same women, 15 years on, wish they were single again because marriage has abjectly failed to live up to their expectations.

But also more significantly, even if, as a woman, you are happier married, you should still protect yourself financially. Marriage is often treated (both on MN and in RL) as an end financial goal for women. The assumption is that all you have to do to secure your financial security is to get married. Of course if you're going to stop work then this is good advice. But it only tells half the story. If you already have financial autonomy, then you are in a much stronger position, both married or single.

A lot of women assume that if the are married they will be OK in the event of divorce "because I'll get half his assets". Well, maybe you will. But you'll also have to maintain that house after having been out of the workforce for many years. It's not as simple as that.

There's nothing wrong with being married and in many cases its financially advantageous to women to get married. But it shouldn't be the be all and end all of a woman's economic ambition.

To me I think it's pretty simple, unless you're already a higher earner earning significantly more than your husband, it's very likely that when you have children, your earning potential and career progression will decrease or slow down and he will earn more than you
Why very likely? Many many mothers keep earning more after having children. I was on £17k when I got pregnant with my first, £55k when she left school.

Why demeaning mums and their ability to be good mums and progress in their career? It can be done, if you want it.

behave? Because it's 'tradition?'
Not tradition but wanting to pick and choose what suits from tradition and feminism.

Equality in opportunities and pay but at the sane time, to be able to choose not to work or only few hours yet enjoy the financial benefits as if they work.

They want to be a main carer to the children because that brings rewards, but share 50% of the not so much fun tasks associated with being a parent.

They want financial security but without earning the money yet having the exact same right to it. However, they want to be able to leave and have all the rights over the children.

Not all of course, but some have mindsets that are very entitled.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Our backward culture also has a lot to answer for with the idea that women should sit pretty and wait for a 'proposal', thereby allowing men to make the major decisions regarding the future structure of both their lives. Why adhere to this backward view of how women should behave? Because it's 'tradition?' IMO passivity does no one any favours and isn't a good model for any relationship. I didn't want to run my adult life on this basis, so didn't. There's a clear choice.

Couldn't agree more with you on this.

This is the most egregious symbol of how little progress women have made in relationships. I have to take myself off and calm myself down when I read these dreadful threads where someone pops and and says "I've been living with him for 17 years, I've had three kids and I've told him I want to get married but he says he has to be the one to propose".

I actually despair when I see people talking about proposals and engagement rings. Backward doesn't begin to cover it. It's utterly prehistoric.

It's not jealousy. I could decide to stay home my DH earns 6 figures. I won't because I want my own money and income. I don't want the power disparity even though DH is generous it puts me in a vulnerable position. I'm with my DH because I love him not because of the lifestyle . I stayed at home until DD went to school, He can do the childcare sometime it's now my time. If my DH had a midlife crisis and runs off with someone else I would be absolutely fine. Financial independence is so so important for women!

I have to take myself off and calm myself down when I read these dreadful threads where someone pops and and says "I've been living with him for 17 years, I've had three kids and I've told him I want to get married but he says he has to be the one to propose
So do I. I think why oh why if marriage is so important would you go on to have 2 and then 3 kids. Stop at one, go back to work when they are 3, earn more money and ensure your financial security. No woman is forced to have more kids. Take your own life in your hands and make concret decisions, not decisions on the hope that somehow, you'll get what you want from someone else.

Ultimately, some women will always consider working as part of normal life to ensure independency, whether they want or not want to work, whilst others will see it as something you do up to the point you have kids and then others can look after you financially.

Many do work PT for a few years because they don't financially need to work more but do so to keep a foot in the market just in case they would need to go FT.

@PurpleButterflyWings

I mean GOD FORBID that some women want to have children and work shock horror part time! So they can have a good work/life balance. Are you actually kidding me right now?! Confused

You're seem so bitter, and are clearly jealous of part time working mums, and stay-at-home-mums ... Your entire posts screams bitterness and jealousy. NOT a good look!

You seem a little bit excited and stressed so I'll cut you some slack but pointing out the flaws in an approach does not automatically mean you are jealous of someone in that position. Calling someone jealous because they don't agree with you is generally a pretty good indicator of a lack of intellectual rigour and consistency.

I think why oh why if marriage is so important would you go on to have 2 and then 3 kids.

why would you even have one child if marriage is so important? As I said earlier in the thread, you’re giving away your bargaining chips

I read a reddit thread asking men why they don't want to get married. The predominant response was:

Men tend to earn more than their partners, especially after children are born, so marriage is financially risky for men.

Women are now much more willing to have sex before marriage. In fact, women are now much more willing to have sex with complete strangers. It's no longer necessary for men to show commitment if they want easy sex.

Women are also now more willing to have children before marriage.

The actual wedding day doesn't interest men much, and there's pride in being a bachelor who isn't "under the thumb" of "the old ball and chain".

Lots of men have girlfriends who coincidentally experience "contraception failures" just around the time they've been pressuring their partner for marriage or a baby. Subsequently, many men see women as untrustworthy.

Basically, the disadvantages of marriage for men (financial risk) still exist, but the advantages no longer do, because men can easily get sex and have children without marriage.

Basically, the disadvantages of marriage for men (financial risk) still exist, but the advantages no longer do, because men can easily get sex and have children without marriage.

No surprises there.

Women’s liberation appears to have done the opposite of liberating us in some aspects of our lives.

Well yes - don't have kids before marriage. Not full proof but what else would you tell your daughter, sister etc.

So what if it's something other women don't feel they need. Having children is a point of vulnerability- marriage best addresses that.

Totally agree.

I believe the vast majority of women who have contraception failures, secretly engineered getting pregnant in the hope her partner will marry them. So transparent and it rarely ends well for anyone.

Yeah, I can see this.

It’s funny because ‘men’ as a group are despised on MN but when it comes to an individuals ‘dear son’ suddenly the standards no longer apply - they would be foaming at the mouth if a girl got pregnant by their ‘bright, high achieving’ 20 year old son, chose to keep it, wanted maintenance payments and said he couldn’t go travelling/on weekends away/take a job abroad due to his paternal responsibilities.

I think they just hope for the ‘happy ever after’ and see a baby as a romantic way of getting that. So few men actively want a family, and before the age of 35, that be honest I can’t blame them 🤷🏼‍♀️