How many more women are going to find themselves in this situation ?

[sofrustratedbylackofknowledge]

Thread borne by the sheer amount of posts this week alone, of women who have moved in with wealthier men . Men who own houses solely in their name.. and women who have children with them without a contract of marriage or civil partnership..

The relationship breaks down and the woman is either not working or massively economically disadvantaged compared with their partners .

Made even worst by the courts bias towards shared care rendering CM almost negligible...

Why are women putting themselves in this situation. ?

Marriage has a lot of patriarchal connotations which are 'no go' for some women... but now we have civil partnerships why would you not go for this option .. ? Or is it the man refusing to commit ?

Also really concerned about the massive number of contraception failures . So many women taking the pill finding themselves pregnant and deciding to continue the pregnancy with no legal protection ..is the pill /implant failing ?

Or is it the man refusing to commit ?

Honestly? Yes, usually. They often buy the ring and then do nothing. In the situation you're talking about they're the ones who stand to lose out.

Yeah I've no idea why so many women are seemingly keen to put themselves in such vulnerable positions

I was with you until the "courts going for shared care so no maintenance" bit. If the dad is willing to do 50/50 he absolutely should and the mum can then work and support herself and her share of the kids. Spousal maintenance is vanishingly rare anyway, as it should be as we move on from the generation where women routinely gave up all work for 20+ years.

It would be nice, but actually for a lot of exes on here it seems 50/50 actually means "hand child over to new girlfriend because I'm busy doing my important man job".

I was watching location location location this week and the couple on there... the mad was openly laughing about the fact that they'd had a kid, we're buying a house, but he had no plans to propose. The woman was clearly hanging on in hopes it would come.

This.

Yeah I've no idea why so many women are seemingly keen to put themselves in such vulnerable positions

^ Someone got flamed on mn for stating this, but in my opinion, it’s true! However you cut it, however loved up you are, it’s a terrible place to be financially if things go tits up.

I don't think the Pill, implants or any other type of contraception is failing more often than it should. When some (not all) people talk about 'contraception failures', they have used it incorrectly or they have been relying on withdrawal.

Just as we cannot force men to marry, we cannot force women to abort. I do think that some women are 'baby blinkered' though. All they can see is 'Waaah, chubby baby feet' and it clouds all sensible thought. Others might be fully aware that their relationship has more red flags than a Liverpool match but are convinced that a baby will change his mind.

Perhaps what is needed is more discussion on the realities of motherhood. I don't mean here on MN, I mean in general society.

I completely agree and have spoken to both my DDs about this. Early days for them but I want them to be aware before falling into the same situation.

Well I'm in my 50s, and I knew not to rely on a man, I knew to build my career. So it's not an age thing

I'm lucky enough to be with a man I respect and who believes in fairness , but that's partly because I didn't want to put up with wasters and arseholes

50/50 rarely means equal share of the actual work, just 50/50 time. The boring side of raising kids still tends to fall one way.

What do you hope to get out of this post? Is this about advising people or...?

I’d dispute they usually buy a ring, and I also believe 50/50 doesn’t always mean the new girlfriend. The first makes men better than they are, the latter worse.

I don’t know why women do it, but you see women on here Really wanting it all the time.

I saw that. I had massive second hand embarrassment for her.

I think the point the OP is making is about women who have not been working because they’ve been looking after the kids. If their ex goes for 50/50 then it can be incredibly hard for them to keep their financial end up, with no recent work experience.

As 50/50 becomes more common I think the finances around it need to be revised anyway, so both parents can find their financial feet and the children aren’t disadvantaged while they do.

I think the trouble with MN is that people don't tend to post about good relationships, only bad ones so there's a skewed perception that all men are shits. Yes, some are but there are a lot of decent ones out there too.

I can see both sides. I'm the higher earner and own the house plus others in my name early. I won't marry - too many cock lodger men like the one in the other thread where the woman works 80 hours and he does v little at home.

So many women taking the pill finding themselves pregnant and deciding to continue the pregnancy with no legal protection ..is the pill /implant failing ?

I'm very suspicious of the sheer amount of contraception failures on mumsnet. I think most of them are users being reckless or engineering happy little accidents.

I agree. I know a lot of women with children who don't work or work part time but consider they are cool/modern/independent for not being married. That's all lovely if their partner sticks around but if it isn't then they're fucked without independent wealth/income. He should pay maintenance for the kids but they'll see fuck all else. 50% equity (if you're on the deeds) but his savings, investments, pensions, forget it.

My personal opinion is because society teaches ‘all you need is love’.

While I do think you should love someone in a long term relationship, we are taught everything will work out as long as there’s love and that we ‘just know’ when it’s forever.

People are in love and swept off their feet. So they forge forward ignoring the huge red flags. Ignoring the vulnerable position they are putting themselves in, because they believe the love will always be like that. They don’t believe a partner will never just fall out of love and treat them differently. That’s not the Happy ever after they have led to believe is true.

Then there’s also the ‘marriage is a just a piece of paper lie’ that so many people peddle.

Yes !!! and 1000 x this !!

My agenda is to get this situation into schools .

Knowledge really IS power.. so many myths about 'common law wives' .. or complete lack of knowledge.

I think some women just don’t even consider some things. I said to my best friend that she should get married (engaged over 10yrs, I don’t think she actually wants to marry him but that’s another story, her head would be turned easily) as if they split she’s done years of part time and her DP has had to pay minimal childcare and build up a nice pension for herself. She hadn’t even actually considered this and I could see the cogs turning as the realisation dawned on her. He wants to get married though, it’s her who has stalled all these years.

The contraception failures are women who are too embarrassed to say they’ve planned a baby in this position

I am the same, will not marry. but I am always upfront and honest and I wouldn’t support someone giving up their income, with a promise of always looking after them.

I wouldn’t make Dps situation worse for my benefit and mislead him that I would take care of him. Dp knows my stance and is happy with it.

The fact is that an unmarried couple where one owns the property aren't recognised as having any sort of "contract". Because they don't. In law, they may as well be housemates who have fallen out, then one has left and is demanding some of the house.

I’d go as far as to include married women who don’t work in this post tbh

The “oh he’s not like that”, the “he loves his kids“ posters; the “he wouldn’t do that to me” posters

Yes he would
Yes they do
Yes he can

So what if you get the house in the divorce? How you planning on paying your bills the next month when you’ve got 50/50 and he ain’t paying you a penny anymore….

lot of women out there who need to give their heads a wobble

and YES I was one of them!