There's too much animosity towards benefit recipients.

[Threadkillacilla]

Any and every flavour of benefit recipient, disabled, pensioner, out of work, low paid, single parent etc etc.
There's a mean and nasty cohort on mumsnet who are vitriolic in their hatred for them all.
What do people want instead of giving people a basic level of existence?
What do they think will happen without benefits?

Of course there is.
The government loves and encourages it. It allows them to treat a vulnerable segment of society with contempt and have enough people think they deserve it to get away with doing it.

At the rate it's going, give it another six months and it'll be all "bring back the workhouses/poorhouses". 🙄

What do they think will happen without benefits? They don't care. They think people will just have to get jobs and they won't care if they can't or if the jobs pay so little that they can't feed their kids or they can't keep the electric on. When it gets to this point then what happens to those people is irrelevant. Nothing beyond "get a job" matters. They don't want to hear about it. They don't care.

And that's when the real shit starts.

There is also vitriol for men, cheaters, Other Women, Tory voters, people in their sixties and seventies, heath visitors, landlords, rich people, people who voted for Brexit, MIL's, SIL's, DIL's.

For reasonable and unreasonable reasons!

I agree OP.

There's nothing wrong with benefit discussions (it's taxpayers money after all), but there seems to be several threads a week now that descend into pure benefit bashing with outlandish stories of "my neighbour claims UC but goes on 10 holidays a week and owns a Ferrari".

It's becoming more than ridiculous at this point.

Just as much hatred for people who protest to increase their wages though.

Yes, loads of animosity

Which suits the current government right down to the ground is all turning on each other

The problem is we are a very low waged country, someone yesterday posted their civil service salary had not risen in 20 years!

And we have very low corporation tax so businesses like Amazon get to control our spending

Plus the current government give money to their friends in as corrupt a way as someone like Bolsanaro

We live in a corrupt country where the people at the top get richer and richer

The gap between rich and poor is wider than at any point in history

WE.ARE.FUCKED

It’s not surprising when there’s so many people who are working full time, struggling and not entitled to any help.

Something we should be proud of. We should take care of our less fortunate.
Reading replies on some threads I believe people would be happy with poor houses or homeless camps.
What a society.

Yes, often disguised as 'just asking questions' and 'why should I work my fingers to the bone' etc etc.

The posts (usually in couched language) directed towards disability benefit recipients are particularly awful. And the venom spat at pensioners - there's a vile thread going on just now about the squeezed middle, and their sheer ignorance about basic economics and economic history is as brazen as their ageism. And they're all playing straight into the Tory's hands.

Why not be angry about that then rather than begrudge someone else?

This is what a lot stems from I expect. I am glad we have a benefits system and feel no resentment, but I'm very privileged in that me and DH are comfortable financially and aren't having to worry about money. If we were I would be a lot more bitter I expect that I wasn't getting the support I needed to survive.

It sometimes seems that MN is a subsidiary of the DailyMail/Sun.. downright nasty.

A hell of a lot of benefit claimants are working. My own Dd claims, despite working, her rent costs are very high and her job is zero hours.

"What do they think will happen without benefits?"

They don't care and they think it will never be them.

Absolutely this. And I hope it never happens to people too, but life happens.

Perhaps the people who are working full time and struggling should realise it's the fault of the government and the employers, not of the benefit claimants.

The anger is being directed at the wrong people.

The problem is that often, for set periods of time, people on benefits have more disposable income than families where both parents work. The working family actually do have more, but it's more for locked in future benefits rather than money in their pocket today. For example, a couple each earning £30k working full time, paying a £1500 month mortgage, paying out full time childcare for 2 children will have less disposable income than the equivalent,non working family on benefits who have their rent paid in full and no need for childcare. But the working family is buying a house, paying into pension, keeping their skills relevant, furthering their career etc, and will in 10 years time be in a far better position than the non working family. The "family" stage of a working families life will be the hardest, tightest time for them, whereas the "family" stage of a non working families life will likely be the most flush period for them because, rightly, benefits are set up to ensure that children don't go without just because their parents don't or can't work. But it can be hard to work so hard and have nothing left, and see non working families seemingly having so much more. I would have loved to spend more time with my children rather than working, but it was unaffordable for me, as I had a mortgage to pay. I resented families who were at home with their children and had more disposable income than me. Now 20 years down the line, I'm so, so much better off because I kept working, paid off the mortgage, have a fully funded pension etc. I'm pretty comfortable, whilst the families who have remained on benefits post their children growing up are living fairly basic existences.

Throw in a 'free' motability car to really get them frothing. Why we are entitled to lease one escapes them though.

Interesting how none of the posters going on about a cushy life on benefits ever give up work to experience the 'lifestyle' for themselves.

@Itchintobestitchin Yes, exactly.

It's not hatred it's a pure discussion of how we a) finance the welfare state and b) what extent we want to to provide. I'm very much in favour of health, education, security and defence taking precedent over the welfare state as I believe all but the most disabled can and should work in some capacity to fund not only our current lives but also our retirement.

I would love it if the state pension was limit to rises that reflect the rise in wages only with a mandate that we all pay into a private scheme from day one.

Appropriate work found and ring fenced from those with disabilities to enable them to engage in society and earn a living. The wages for this should be linked to a person ability to work, with even says 2-3hour a week providing a minimum income equivalent to current benefits. This would likely to be more costly than the current system but I believe it is worth while.

An end to the current housing system for benefit claimants make it so housing benefit only pays for HMO style accommodation. Everyone deserve a roof over their heads but they should be funding it.

No ability to claim out of work benefits it should be funded through an insurance scheme to which you pay into from day one of working. Make work scheme mandatory for those without paid employment (litter picking, street cleaning, factory work etc) to provide an income limited to the current level of benefits.

People need to live within their means so if you can afford no children don't have them, can only afford one (us) have one etc

People need to live within their means so if you can afford no children don't have them, can only afford one (us) have one etc

Blimey.

The posts (usually in couched language) directed towards disability benefit recipients are particularly awful

Absolutely, @Teresa777. There is a sub-set of posters that appear regularly on MN specifically to deter MNers from claiming PIP. One even pretended to work for the DWP, saying things to posters like, 'you'll never get PIP, there's point you claiming, no you won't qualify ...'

It was utter bollocks and I managed to get MNHQ to agree to delete the thread.

These posters seem to come here either as out-and-out trolls; or as arseholes with a political agenda. The DWP are currently testing the waters around a number potential benefit cuts and changes, and of course political flying monkeys from policy units are going to come to MN to play games around how to best float ideas in the wider media.

Some threads end up as if it's just policy trolls left on them ranting at each other and into the void.

What happens if you fall Ill @Grumpybutfunny we have insurance through the welfare state but in your scenario what would happen?

Make work scheme mandatory for those without paid employment (litter picking, street cleaning, factory work etc)

WTF!? Why stop there - bring back slavery!

@Grumpybutfunny

do you know anyone with a disability?

There's something going on @AutumnCrow on another thread someone said they'd rather kill themselves than have two kids with disability, in a thread about benefit for kids with disability.
Mind. Blown.