There's too much animosity towards benefit recipients.

[Threadkillacilla]

Any and every flavour of benefit recipient, disabled, pensioner, out of work, low paid, single parent etc etc.
There's a mean and nasty cohort on mumsnet who are vitriolic in their hatred for them all.
What do people want instead of giving people a basic level of existence?
What do they think will happen without benefits?

@daffodilandtulip

no we don’t all know someone who ‘takes the piss’.

The few people I know claiming any sort of benefit are in need, those who got PIP had to provide shed loads of evidence.
I sat with my neighbour while she had her phone assesment - it was one of the most demeaning and humiliating things I have ever witnessed. She still had to go to tribunal to get it, assisted by CAB and the Law Centre.

Wages need to increase. Housing costs need to decrease.

To enable this we should tax the rich more (and I mean the rich not the middle - the middle need a break tbh) and tax fossil fuel companies, Amazon and the like to the max. And renationalise as much as possible. Starmer dicking about with reforming the upper chamber and identity politics as his priorities makes Mick Lynch look like Clement Attlee.

Think this is exactly what I was going to say.

This is why I favour renationalisation. Privatised employers are taking the piss out of so many workers.

Well I agree with you on Starmer. Utter headline ludicrous rubbish.

Fossil fuel I reckon is taxed to the max with the double rate and extra WFT and we need them to invest in new energy.

I don’t know the barrier to taxing Amazon etc but interested to hear how it would work in practise.

I would throw in looking at joining the SM too.

But I'm not sure I can blame those who are resentful either.

Agree with this to a slight extent @Topgub BUT there's ignorance and then there's wilful ignorance, and I think too many subscribe to the latter, certainly on MN anyway.

Funny that OP there is also a huge group of people on MN who hate those who earn enough to pay a big amount in tax every month and not claim. They seem fit to insult them for not kissing the feet of people who are claiming it.

As though we should be very grateful, as though we were specially chosen. Top tip we weren't many of us were once on benefits and we sacrifice our life's, choice of having kids and long hours to get where we are to now earn it. Alot of us took years of training and have high university fees also to pay it all back. Goes both ways.

That still doesn't explain the vitriol towards benefit claimers.Have a go at the government not the poor people !Many of the claimant are workers but their greedy bosses underpay them!So basically many benefits are bailing out the employers!

Totally agree with this.

@AutumnCrow Do you remember nationalisation the first time?

There is open, self-righteous criticism of people who receive any kind of benefit because it has been encouraged for decades by Tory governments and the right wing press.

People happily gloss over the fact that many people who receive benefits actually work and that the benefit system props up employers who don't want to pay staff a reasonable wage.

I have worked for decades and contributed to the system and I have no issues with the fact that I am now receiving PIP from this year alongside my part-time job income as my long term health condition worsened as I became older.

If not, why exactly do I pay income tax and national insurance contribution every month? I fully expect this to be used to fund a safety net for anyone who needs it.

Most benefits are means-tested and you need to meet specific criteria to receive any kind of support so what exactly is the problem?

Funny how we never talk about the fact that MPs get their food, housing, transport and expenses subsidised by us while they are on a perfectly good wage while a single mum who struggles to make ends meet is demonised...

There is so much vitriol directed at the poorest in society 'playing the system'. Why isn't equal attention paid to the tax avoidance measures of the top 0.5%? Why aren't people fuming that those earning £10m only pay an effective tax rate of 21%? Why aren't people angry that the richest in society avoid paying any inheritance tax?

It is probably becuase the UK media has brainwashed people to blame those less well off than themselves and in doing so redirect their anger away from those who getting the greatest benefits from the system.

In 1945-1950? No. My parents and grand-parents do.

@Wheretheskyisblue

It is possible to be annoyed at both

Wealth inequality is a far bigger issue than fraudulent benefits claims

There is a huge amount of expectation for what the state should provide in terms of support that isn't actually being provided because the state isn't taking enough tax to pay for it

Are people entitled to be pissed off that some people seem to think the state should fund their lifestyle? When it's their tax paying for it?

Maybe you're right and I've missed it. I'm far from a high earner, I work for crapita who are one of the real villains imo and earn just enough to not need any benefit but maybe it's easier for me to imagine dropping a rung and being in need. Most people in need have paid their tax as they should but people associate any benefits to the shirker minority, yet we don't associate all wealthy ppeople with the ones evading tax. In fact it's applauded to minimise tax obligations.

People don't tend to begrudge less fortunate, but lazy and entitled. I see fairly regular posts here where OP asks if she should just quit her job and start relying solely on benefits because she will be better off.
People with disabilities, illnesses, short term difficulties should receive benefits and it should be easier for them to do so. Unless there is a long term health condition benefits shouldnt be a permanent solution

I get benefits. I also work and I'm a top rate tax payer.

True, but instead of applying critical thinking and realising, hang on, if I’m struggling and I’m above the earnings threshold for help, then everyone getting help is struggling worse than I am. This should create compassion, not jealousy.

Sadly there are a lot of myths about benefits recipients like they have more money than a FT worker and so on.

That’s interesting. Given your earn over £150,000 do you believe you need the benefits you receive?

not being goody, just trying to understand. I am sore you can see how someone earning say £30k would find this odd.

Benefits such as PIP aren't means tested so it's not necessarily odd.

@Stripedbag101 yes. They're disability related.

I get PIP. And no other benefits. But that's a benefit. They're a gateway for me to other assistance that I need and can't get any other way.

An end to the current housing system for benefit claimants make it so housing benefit only pays for HMO style accommodation. Everyone deserve a roof over their heads but they should be funding it

So whole families should be shunted into HBO, with potential addicts? What about people that have adaptions for their disabilities? Or a single parent who has shared custody?
Why on earth should someone who currently lives in a 1 bed flat be moved into a HBO? If you are single person on UC with no kids, and housing benefit is removed, they they have a whole £74 a week to live off of. Do you think they would have any sort of life after the rent is taken from that?
Why do you think that would be acceptable?

No ability to claim out of work benefits it should be funded through an insurance scheme to which you pay into from day one of working. Make work scheme mandatory for those without paid employment (litter picking, street cleaning, factory work etc) to provide an income limited to the current level of benefits

Some people never make it into the workplace. What happens to them?
We have had work schemes before. It was basically slavery. Why not give the people litter picking a proper wage?

I work full time on a £25k salary. I get £850 UC and child benefit of £21.50 a week.
If I didn’t need childcare help I would still get nearly £300 UC.

I pay almost £400 in tax and NI each month.

A lot of people who benefit bash don’t realise they might actually be eligible to claim UC depending on their circumstances.

Just because someone claims benefits doesn’t mean they’re a “dole dosser”. I pay plenty of tax and NI each month.
I think when they called it “working tax credit” that helped take some stigma away but the simplification of UC just makes some people think free money and start on the benefit bashing.

but financially you don’t need them surely?

you are financially able to cover the additional costs imposed by your disability.

the moral question is different - should tax payers cover this cost or you personally.

so if a billionaire had a disability, the tax payer would give him or her additional money help cover the additional costs.

I suppose ir goes to heart of why we have benefits - are they are safety net to stop people falling into poverty - if that is the case there is an argument that the very wealthy should not receive them.

but just a debate point - not something to be honest I necessarily think!