There's too much animosity towards benefit recipients.

[Threadkillacilla]

Any and every flavour of benefit recipient, disabled, pensioner, out of work, low paid, single parent etc etc.
There's a mean and nasty cohort on mumsnet who are vitriolic in their hatred for them all.
What do people want instead of giving people a basic level of existence?
What do they think will happen without benefits?

An end to the current housing system for benefit claimants make it so housing benefit only pays for HMO style accommodation. Everyone deserve a roof over their heads but they should be funding it.

Sounds very workhousey.

I’ve said this on here before , but a huge number of people who claim benefits are also working full time.

The jobs just don’t pay enough to live in some places.

My dh was one of them - “good” job but for a Local authority, so wages are crap. I worked nights in a carehome (3 nights, 36 hours) - so crap pay as well but at least I was at home in the day to save on childcare (no sleep almost killed me though).

But we were in London. Rent for a tiny, damp dump was crazy, almost 2k a month. We claimed top up housing benefit like most people we knew, or we wouldn’t have been able to live.

Some posters would be creaming themselves at the thought of workhouses being opened. They never stop to think that one day they might be the ones needing help.

Animosity against the minority who work the system or make their life choices around the tax payer purse is absolutely fine in my book.

Most people are able to differeniate between the two. But there is this phenomenon where discussing those who are an unnecessary burden on that state is seen as slating all those who genuinely receive much needed support. A bit like discussing the faults of a single teacher, dr, nurse, nrp, step parent, MIL etc and they respond like they are one being.

Yes, this. An illness or accident can happen to anyone, leading to the need to claim benefits. Some people don't seem to think it could ever happen to them though.

So what do you do with people who work in factories, litter pickers etc in order to make way for unemployed people in your forced labour? Make them redundant and then force them into unpaid labour? Also what about those who work full time but are still eligible for benefits because they are so poorly paid, but also essential like health care workers?

Grumpybutfunny

You do realise many people with disabilities work. You can be awarded PIP and work.

I do think the squeezed middle vitriol is just as unhelpful.

I think just about everyone agrees about the tiny minority who are gaming the system @Survey99 but have a read of some recent threads. Genuine claimants who need and are entitled to use the system I happily pay tax towards. It's brutal.

It's the irony of posters say stuff like "well I work and have DC's and I don't receive benefits" that makes me chuckle. If you're earning under a certain amount and you have children, then you do receive at least 1benefit.

I agree, however there's the same for anyone who happens to own a property, have a pension or dare to be retired.

Make work scheme mandatory for those without paid employment (litter picking, street cleaning, factory work etc) to provide an income limited to the current level of benefits.

• bringing back punishment for being poor History about the Poorhouses has surely taught us that this is devastating to communities locking them in a cycle of poverty

Setting apart those with disabilities or disabled children who are unable to work, and don't forget many disabled people can and do work, OAPs, who many on MN seem to despise, despite the fact that most have worked for 40/50years without things that would have seemed luxuries back then, but people take for granted nowadays, not working at all and claiming handouts seems to be a lifestyle choice for many, along with producing hordes of children and complaining to the papers because the council refuses to provide a 6 bedroom council house.
Pretty sure many of these people would quickly find employment if they were told the British taxpayer would no longe feed and clothe them. They could try doing what many parents did (and still do)
Dad goes out to work through the day. Mum goes out to work evenings when dad come home.
My parents did it and I did it too
Back in the days before wage top ups and free childcare.
That is reason people are pissed off with benefits claimants. There is a big difference between can't work and won't work!!
Pass me my arse now please 🥵

Back in the days before wage top ups and free childcare.

Were can I find this free childcare please? Also what happens when dad has buggered off and mum already works full time, but can’t also work evenings because she has children and thought when she was planning them that the other human creating them would do and pay his fair share?

Also do you no the majority of people on benefits already work?

It does. And it’s what some of them want.

There's no easy answer, is there? I guess successive Govts have tried to get it right, but just like posties / rail employees / nurses etc at the mo, it's a merry go round, a balancing act..
I'm retired now but my kids are on benefits (ND, on PIP & ESA) & I just think that my DH, my Dad, grandads etc paid enough in over the years.. obviously I'd prefer if they were working, but it is what it is.
We have never been out of the UK, no car etc, so I'm not beating myself up!

The benefit system was introduced as a safety net to ensure those unable to work didn’t starve and children always had a roof, food and education.

i think any decent society wants the most vulnerable to be safe, fed and healthy.

the benefits bashing is fuelled by headlines about how much families on benefits can receive. The recent story for example of the family on £7k benefits a month. This was never how the benefit system was intended to operate and it makes tax payers feel taken advantage of. This is likely an outlier - but people start to think that it is reality of the system.

I think it's probably just human nature to resent people who appear to be getting something for nothing. Or those who seem to demand something for nothing.

The minority who play the system and think the state owes them a living don't help.

Theres so much the govt could be doing to help people into work and to improve working conditions and the COL.

They won't though so as things keep getting tighter for everyone except those with the most it's probably only going to get worse

But I'm not sure I can blame those who are resentful either. It's galling that some unemployed people have a bigger disposable income than those who work.

With anything, there's a "bad apple spoils the lot". We all know of a person/family who takes the piss, gets a "free" new build, car, always splashing the cash. In turn it makes you cynical towards the rest, even without meaning to.

I don’t really know much about benefits system to comment on individuals but this stood out to me on another thread

6. Reductions in indirect taxes and increased benefits-in-kind, largely in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, drove the proportion of individuals receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes increased from 47.5% to 54.2% in FYE 2021

Seems high. Of course the pandemic was why which makes sense. But how does it compare to other countries and how would you make it lower if not

Not easy to deal with but I’d not like to see it go higher still

Increase wages, @MarshaBradyo?

Or taxes. Amazingly, the Tory government has gone for the latter.

There was a poster on here during lockdown who thought that the government should temporarily ignore the amount of savings she had so she could claim UC. She had about £90k and didn't want to spend it. She didn't like the idea of spending her own money if she could claim benefits, but she wasn't a scrounger like some benefit claimants!

@Grumpybutfunny I work full time. 56k. I'm also a single mum who is disabled (Multiple Sclerosis). I've been very lucky that I didn't relapse until I was in my 40's and therefore had an established career who made some very helpful reasonable adjustments.

Imagine if I first relapsed at 20. I'd have a much lower chance of getting a role in the first place and also not a role I'd have an interest in actually doing.

Oh and I get the higher rate of PIP / free car.

Taxes can’t go much higher? Or would you raise them again

Wages I recall a post saying the government don’t gaf about small businesses with the £1 wage and more will go under.

How high would you go and how would you control inflation and protect businesses? Or maybe not do the latter, which is fine but has an impact on employment and revenue.

I don't think it helps that we talk about 'benefit entitlement'. 'Entitled' now has a double meaning: it can mean eligible, or it can mean grabby.

I think 'benefit eligibility' would be less adversarial.

The system of top ups allows employers to shift the burden of people receiving a living income onto the state. It's not down to the claimants - it's down to a wage culture in which you can work full-time and still be unable to afford the basics.