To think this is appalling? (Civil Service salary)

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Having a clear out the other day, I found some old payslips from 2001 when I was an HEO in the civil service. I was earning just over £27,000. I thought I would have a look and see what an HEO earns today. Outside London, the starting salary is £27,150, with those in London getting £30,388. So virtually no rise in 20 years!

I find these stagnated salaries really shocking. How are people making ends meet? How can young people make ends meet or buy a home? We are based in the US now and sometimes I wonder whether we could move back ( I do miss friends and family at times but financially it just does not make sense to do so). Just comparing it to say teaching over here in a city similar to London where your salary rises automatically ( not performance related) from the low 50k range to 95k after 20 years service so you are incentivized to stick around in jobs like that- same with nursing the average salary in the Us is 120k so even with the ridiculous health insurance and high house prices I think people are better off. I just do not see how people can get by on these low salaries that have not risen in ten/twenty years. If home prices has not risen so much it would be ok but the home prices are sky high in many UK cities.

My partner has just had his first raise in the civil service, 2 years after starting. It was 1% 🙄 🙄 We weren’t very impressed.

@Literaturemakeslifebetter a lot of people are really struggling, hence the nurses strikes etc. The galling thing is that the money is there, just being hoarded by the wealthy.

I was G7 until quite recently on £55k (London).

Some departments are as low as £43k for G7 which considering the responsibility I think is very low - and this is London.

Ive also seen G7 for £63k.

I think the disparity between different departments is really odd. Especially as if you then leave your dept on level transfer I believe you can stay on same salary.

We've been advised to level transfer to either another ALB or parent dept, then come back to our original ALB where they have to honour the higher salary. It was pretty galling to hear that the HEOs in my org were working at a higher level and with more stress/responsibility than the SEOs in our parent dept 😖

@dubyalass that sounds so familiar!!!

HEO outside of London - I get 33k but came in on promotion from EO so couldn’t negotiate - I’m looking at leaving ASAP and taking a pay cut to do an apprenticeship that will eventually lead to a higher earning potential! The stress and targets feel ridiculous for what I’m being paid sometimes. In my department morale it so low - I’ve never worked somewhere that’s so depressing!

Shit, isn't it! I don't understand why salaries aren't the same across all depts and levels. Our org is the result of others merging and everyone is on different salaries. It's led to a huge amount of resentment and every all-staff call is dominated by discussions about pay. We struggle to recruit too.

It really is awful! My friend and I do very similar roles, he works for the civil service and I work for an international STEM company, he is paid just under £30,000 IN LONDON meanwhile I am on nearly £40,000 and live in the north. I do not think his pay is fair, I lived in London and moved back up north due to the pay being considerably more in the north than in the south surprisingly, he upon learning my employment package has had his sights set on moving away from London and the Civil Service as soon as possible.

My DF was a principle in the CS in the 80s and on 28k but he bought his house in 1960 for 4k (4 bed detached in nice area in the SE) My DM was able to be a SAHM for 5 years before becoming a teacher, as a DC I thought we were fairly wealthy and when they sadly both died, the inheritance was shared between 7 of us (my DSIS and our 5 DC) and we each got 200k near enough, and this was all earnt money from CS and teaching as my DF family was very poor, he won a scholarship and worked his way through the ranks i the CS, used to be a job for life, sadly not anymore

The private sector (in many cases) is the same. This is why we should all be supporting the strikes. A rising tide may raise all boats.

Yep. I left the UK, and accountancy in 2003. I was on 43k as a TL, and was living a pretty good life in London on that salary! When I look at graduate trainee salaries for accountants now, they aren't much different from what I was getting paid back in the 90s! I bloody hated accountancy and was only in it for the money, so there is no way I would do it now. I'm in Oz now and getting paid more than double what a similar role would get in the UK, you are getting shafted!

UK salaries are shocking.
Since leaving the UK, I've worked in Canada and Australia. In both those countries, my salary is about double what it would be (currently) in the UK. I'd like to move home at some point, but it would be financial suicide.
I feel sorry for all my friends/relatives struggling. The stagnation has massively eroded their living standards. I would encourage anyone with skills and a bit of drive to considering emigrating.

I'm doing this! I have around 8 months left of my part time masters and know I will make TL for the role around the same time which will bump my pay to around £45,000-£50,000. I know by pushing myself and taking on that responsibility over the next 2-3 years I will open significant doors for myself abroad to get greater package offers or internal transfer (I work mostly remotely anyway) I'm completing any and every training courses, taking on independent projects etc. I have had family move to Auckland, Sydney and Orlando and know I could get good offers in all 3 and substantially more than the UK.

EO software engineers in my department are targeted at new graduates. At about £22k. Which was my husband’s starting salary as a graduate software engineer 20 years ago.

Unsurprisingly we struggle to recruit.

I think the disparity between different departments is really odd. Especially as if you then leave your dept on level transfer I believe you can stay on same salary

Yes you can. This is how I upped my salary whilst staying at the same Grade (then a Grade 6).

What’s really annoying is external candidates get much more for the same job, even if the existing CS was first pick! Has been the difference of 100K vs 70k in my experience. So that’s the real trick, but obviously more disruptive.

Do they not do job evaluation and banding in CS?

That would prevent new entrants getting more

HEOs in my husbands department start at 34k. He’s in the north of England.

CS salaries vary wildly though and along with the pay freezes and stagnant wages it’s vary low compared to the private sector.

I'm shocked how low civil service wages are in the UK. I know I'm fairly well along the scale step 9, but I'm earning about 34k as a CO, euro though, not stg
EOs start on about 32 k and HEOs start on about 50k here. my dept gets its full mileage out of me though. I keep hearing (mostly jokes) about cushy civil service jobs but I've worked harder for the two departments I've worked for than I worked when I in a private company.

Do they not do job evaluation and banding in CS?

Yes, but they tend to advertise with a range (particularly SCS jobs). Then an external person can come in at the top, but an existing civil servant needs to stay on their current salary, or goes in at the minimum for the band if they are being promoted.

This is really interesting. I thought external candidates now always came in on the minimum salary for the band?

Or is it just for SCS that this is the case?

Exactly! This is the same for just about all civil servant/ public sector workers . My brothers's comparative wage now is lower than 15yrs ago, no pay rise in that time which is absolutely shocking, but the Government scaremonger when unions suggest strikes to get the public against them.
People deserve a dece

Well they should recognise previous skills and experience. Not just length of service in CS

People deserve a decent living wage.

And as for that arse of an MP who suggested people get better paid jobs , who the fuck are going to do the police/nursing /teaching jobs etc that are ESSENTIAL but the government won't pay decent wages to ??

Well they should recognise previous skills and experience. Not just length of service in CS

Agree. Which is why I was clear to set out that this is the case even when the CS is the first pick from the candidates interviewed (ie the most desirable candidate).