To think this is appalling? (Civil Service salary)

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Having a clear out the other day, I found some old payslips from 2001 when I was an HEO in the civil service. I was earning just over £27,000. I thought I would have a look and see what an HEO earns today. Outside London, the starting salary is £27,150, with those in London getting £30,388. So virtually no rise in 20 years!

Yep. And yet ministers talk about civil servants getting "inflation busting payraises" and I'm sat there like "you've had a bigger increase every year than I've had in nearly 15 years put together.

Salaries do very a lot per department though

As a junior Dr in 2000 I earn about 25K today he earn 29384. So less than 5,000 in 22 years. My first 3 bed flat in zone 2 cost £177K.

It is not just public sector! Everything has stagnated. Or gone down. The role I did pre-kids (in the 00s) is now paid worse (I’m in publishing). There is a huge gap between the few rich (tech, banking) and the rest of us. Time to revolt.

TBH I see the same in most private sector in the NW, jobs at minimum wage and barely above expecting a degree plus relevant experience.

This is why I left the civil service. Years of pay freezes, even when we had a raise it was below inflation so effectively a pay cut.

I got a grad level junior role in the finance sector for £22k over 20 years ago, and it's now £25k. Low-paid roles have all stayed low-paid. Rooms in shared flats cost 40-50% more, roughly £5k/year. It's objectively tougher for all young people starting out now, but that isn't related to sector.

I have noticed the same thing and I also wonder if this is the same in universities. In 1992 I got a job (one year to cover sabbatical) as a deputy to a departmental administrator - a science department. I had my own office with secretarial back up and my salary was £20,000 a year and I was expected to see and pick up what needed to be done and just get on with it. There was a lot of overtime if I wanted it doing exam invigilation. My degree was in a totally different subject.

Looking online at university jobs, I think for a similar job now, it would be probably about the same salary and that was 30 years ago. In my rural northern area you could buy a little terraced house for £20K then.

I was an AO outside London back in 2005. I was on £19,500. Current starting salary in my old department for an AO is £21,800. Considering how much prices and inflation have risen since then, its a pay cut in real terms.

Same in private sector outside a very few roles. Vets used to start on around 30 + tax free rented house plus company car (with fuel card) now they start on around 28 and no benefits. So major net reduction.

Suspect a lot of the reduction in pay of young professionals started when ownership of professional businesses (Solicitors, Accountants, Vets) no longer had to remain within the profession so you no longer have to make sure your employees can buy you out when you want to retire...

Much better T&C's and Pensions than the private sector though, no? If you look at the total package, how does it compare? I have friends working in HMRC, flexi time, overtime, long holidays and fantastic pensions. They say they can't leave because T&C's so good.

Many years ago when dh began his civil service career an mp’s salary was in line with a G7.
An mp gets a basic of £84k now.

Not only that, but I saw an advert for a Home Office AO last week, Border Force, I think it was. Just an ordinary AO job, but bloody hell, the hoops you had to get through for this shitty salary. I can understand the security vetting considering the department. But it's all the competencies stuff. DH had to do the same complicated interview process for EO (with added further responsiblity for his specialism) in the late 90s, for so much more money. The pay and grade (and his specialism) warranted the complex interview process, but to try to put all that on a standard AO now is grossly unfair and downright disgusting, the overinflated expectations of the employee.

It is laughable, really. I really wonder what the HR people are doing there. Justifying their own overpaid roles, no doubt.

@JCoverdale my dad was an academic (retired mid 90s). House in posh part of London. 3 kids at private school. It simply ain’t possible now. Equivalent lecturers maybe £45-80k. Our old house probably worth 3m now. Didn’t make profit from it since they sold and left London. It’s all bollox.

To be clear, I meant how equivalent role (senior lecturer) may be paid something in region of45-80k today, depending on department, uni, etc.

companies would be far better taking people from A-level age, effectively a blank slate, and training them on the job, to their own requirements.

To be honest I think a lot of young people would be better off it it worked that way too. The people who often seeem to get further in their careers earlier have often got the work experience and networking in earlier.

I only hung onto my government job because I knew I'd start a family. I'd gone from private sector over four years later I'd worked out that it was dead man's shoes if I clung on went back

Lots of jobs have barely moved in the last 10-20 years. I've been looking at qualified accountant salaries and can't believe that they're similar to when I last changed jobs back in 2001. I think stagnation has happened in lots of professions.

I agree, especially when it comes to graduates with non relevant degrees who basically start with the same abilities/experience upon graduating aged 21 compared with an A level school leaver at 18. Obviously very different if the graduate has a relevant degree, but even then, the "academic" side of a subject such as accounting is very different from real life working.

Pensions used to be good but not anymore. When you get to a certain level of responsibility you have minimal flexibility because the workload is too high. The flexibility and long holidays are there on paper. But in practice, you can barely make use of them. If DH took all his holiday there is no-one else to cover for him so he just goes back to an increased pile of work. He could then try and work overtime to get through it, but there are rules on how that works too. I think a lot of poeple in the Civil service are scared to jump ship to the private sector because they've never done it. They think it's cut throat and you can be told to get your things and leave at any time. I guess that might be the case?

I’m a G7 on london / south east salary and it’s 60k. I definitely can’t afford a london flat.

Actually 59k

You’re still getting 1/3 of your salary monthly plus huge lump sum. Not many people get a defined contribution pension, it is decent

@Claudia84 its the same in most private sector business (see my post who above) it is not limited to the public sector at all.

Some small exceptions in the private sector being tech and emerging industries or industries that emerged over the past 10 yrs, support staff salaries e.g. HR, Finance, marketing are still pretty low though in those industries, not much higher than older more traditional businesses and industries.

The pensions thing is a myth. I work for HMRC and my pension has taken a right kicking in recent years. The government were found to have discriminated against some civil servants on age grounds. Google The McCloud Judgement if you're bored enough😅

You’re still getting 1/3 of your salary monthly plus huge lump sum
Wrong.