To think this is appalling? (Civil Service salary)

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Having a clear out the other day, I found some old payslips from 2001 when I was an HEO in the civil service. I was earning just over £27,000. I thought I would have a look and see what an HEO earns today. Outside London, the starting salary is £27,150, with those in London getting £30,388. So virtually no rise in 20 years!

I was in the civil service in the eighties . When I found out I was training someone who because they where older than me was earning a lot more I quit.

This time last year I left a job I'd been in for 8 years. My salary had risen by less than inflation (even though inflation was super low over that period). In the year since I left I've earned 100% more. Next year should be about 150%. I'm still only slightly more than averagely paid for my qualifications & experience. The only way to make progress is to move roles regularly in my experience. My 8 year stint should have been 4-5 yes but life / mat leave etc extended it out.

That would surely because they’d been in the job longer and back in those days your salary went up in the grade, that’s long gone now. Everyone’s on the same now

God yes, I work with a few people on AO grade who have been in the CS 30 years and their predicted pensions are no where near what they were predicted to be even 15 years ago. Our payments have increased and the employer contribution has kept up but the money available when the pension is drawn has dropped off a cliff.

In our department EO starts at £26k. I know this as I have just got a promotion! AO is between £20-£22k.

@CurlyhairedAssassin yep, a good friend does lots of marketing agency recruitment and she now values work experience over a degree.

The civil service pension is still better than most private sector pensions, though. Which private companies offer defined benefit pensions these days? None that I know.

But I agree with the general point. Fast Stream starting salary is currently £28k - the same as it was in 2008, having dipped slightly lower during coalition years. And there is no London weighting. The Fast Stream are planning to strike and I don't blame them.

I have also recently seen an EO position requiring applicants to have a degree in computer science- oh how I laughed.

are you getting mixed up with a defined benefit pension? Public sector pensions used to be defined benefit. Some older people till do have some of their pension in the defined benefit part of the scheme. I am in the local government pension and it switched over to defined contribution soon after I joined it in 2009.. I still have a very small part of my pension in the defined benefit part. It will make minimal difference to me because I'd only been there a couple of years when it was that scheme.

It is. I've been a civil servant since 2004 and I certainly wouldn't have the years of pension contributions I do if I were in the private sector.

Yep. I started as an HEO nearly 20 years ago, on £27k. Then partner’s dad had started in the same role 25 years earlier, and whilst I don’t know what he had been paid, it was enough to buy a lovely big house that would now be at least a million, and provide for a SAH wife and children. I could just about afford a shared flat whilst I saved for a deposit. Now, it wouldn’t even cover that 😞

Yes apologies defined benefit pension.

Current pension is not great, DH has some in old scheme, some in new. He's been employed by them 27 years and his pension forecast is pretty shit tbh no longer worth staying married to him for it!

Arm's length body (ALB) HEO on £27k here. My org has the lowest salaries of all the ALBs sponsored by our parent department and we struggle to recruit. Yes the pension contribution is the best I've ever had, but we have people taking on additional jobs to make ends meet. I'm working well above my pay grade at the moment but we have no progression within band, so I have to go for an SEO job (with associated stress/epic workload) if I want a payrise.

I'm looking at a secondment to our parent department having heard from colleagues that it's considerably more money for considerably less responsibility (still at HEO). It's shite and the unions are balloting staff re strikes.

For an example of pension my lump sum is 150k if I retire at 65, and 20k a year. I don’t think that’s too bad for those saying it’s a poor pension. That’s based on my current grade, hoping to get another promotion at least before then.

Not sure how that relates, but someone with a computer science degree can certainly do better than an EO level job. For in demand jobs companies often offer much better benefits, CS ones have been eroded over the years and people on new contracts whilst it's better than some jobs it's not the case it's better than all anymore.

Cs pensions are not a myth. They may be worse than previous but the alpha scheme builds 2.32% of salary per year I.e. I get 1/43 of my salary per year of retirement. Anyone who thinks that is rubbish has clearly not tried building a pension in the private sector. I'd need contributions of 25٪ to match that. I agree pay is shocking though. I earn 6k more than I did 10 years ago...however I still returned to the CS for the pension.

Wages have particular hardly risen since GFC in 2008. Cameron and Osborne’s austerity beginning 2011 did not only decimate public services it also produced v low growth. Other developed countries did better.

Although the pandemic and Russian/Ukraine war and Brexit have all contributed the U.K. economy was already more exposed than other developed countries due to austerity. I remember reading online in 2011 that some economists said austerity would not produce good growth, cutting spending at a time of recession is a poor economic choice but the media and weak Labour opposition did not speak out and Cameron and Osborne got to drive the false narrative of the economy being like a household budget with cuts necessary.

What pension are you in? Even Classic only gives a lump sum that is 3 x the annual pension

@dubyalass exactly the pension is attractive but in many CS departments the pay is so low it isn't a worth the trade off. Also the myth that promotion is easy - really not, still can depend on how good you are at sucking up to the right people not if you are good at your job.

6 years as HEO after nearly twenty as an EO. I’m on £33k

oh don't apologise. I did a bit of digging and don't think I'm right anyway. Pensions talk gets me all confused. Especially when it comes to my own and I have multiple pension pots all based on different salaries, and in different parts of the scheme. And to complicate matters I also have a SIPP.

The pension changed a few years ago. I think pre 2015 have a better deal than those who joined later. I should know the details but my eyes glaze over when I think about it.

That's very interesting. I was wondering about that.

I work in local government rather than civil service. We had a decent rise this year - but for the last 15 years there have been pay freezes or 1%, 2% rises. On top of that there have been freezes on the ability to move up the pay scale on incremental rises .

I joined in 2001, so had however many years of classic before it changed. I was 24 when I joined, so I’ll have the max number of years service when I retire. This isn’t accounting for changes with Mcloud judgement. I got that figure from the Pension retirement modeller