Fed up of businesses aligning themselves with politics!

[thehorsehasnowbolted]

I was about to grab a turkey and cranberry sandwich yesterday at a major retailer when I noticed on the package that 5% of that purchase would go to Shelter.

Why are we being increasingly forced nowadays to contribute to causes we may not necessarily agree with in this way? Why don't businesses stick to selling goods? Why the constant virtue signalling? It's annoying

I do not intend to comment on this charity in particular, but I have seen my fair share of pensioners being out of pocket to evict problem tenants who were in a position to pay the rent and look after properties but simply didn't want to and just played the system.

The results of charities activities are not always 100% positive, so customers shouldn't be forced to contribute in this way.

Why do businesses assume that their customers agree with the charities they pick? The constant virtue signalling is patronising and insulting.

All irrelevant, according to my brother who is a mathematician. The only proof he accepts is proof by logic.

Of course it is ridiculous to apply that standard of proof to any other aspect of life. It wouldn't allow for, e.g. testing of medicines.

Every branch of knowledge has to establish its own concept of testing and proof, over many years.

So, @thehorsehasnowbolted are you calling M&S on Monday morning to sell them your expertise?

It's interesting that so many marketing gurus on this thread are doing exactly the same as what some big retailers do.

Shout down your customer for wrong think and send them away, rather than listen and try to understand their point of view to secure their custom.

Is it part and parcel of the trade?

No wonder businesses get it wrong so often if they are being advised by such 'geniuses'

There is a before and after looking at previous years and years after?

And looking at sales trends for over sandwiches to see if the uplift for this specific sandwich was driven by other factors, or predominantly by the change. Even easier to measure if multiple sandwiches have had this change.

Something not being a 100% reliable doesn't make it invalid. Statistical significance is what you're looking for, and confidence intervals. But I assume you don't know much about data as you genuinely seem to be one of the most clueless people I've seen here recently.

It's because we don't care about the custom of some moody unhinged woman who doesn't understand data, science, or critical thinking.

You also bought the item anyway, so it didn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. And as you can see most people disagree with you, so statistically it's still a better business decision to not listen to your whining.

You also bought the item anyway, so it didn't matter

No, I said I didn't. I've said it upthread. They have lost my custom

Your opinion doesn't matter.
It's because we don't care about the custom of some moody unhinged woman who doesn't understand data, science, or critical thinking.

You've definitely proved my point

You didn't buy a sandwich because you were so upset they were trying to help homeless people? You sound like a great person.

Fact is, when you buy something that money becomes theirs. What they choose to do with it is none of your business. They've told you what they plan to do with 5% of it, but they didn't have to.

Their chosen cause, whether you agree with it or not, will not cease to exist simply because they didn't get your 5% of that sandwich. So your 'protest' in choosing not to buy it had no effect other than you had to find something else to eat...

But by the same token you must understand that you can't please everyone, don't you?

It hard to think that some companies don't care about your POV but as long as they're pleasing the masses, that's all that counts. What would you do if you owned a business and wanted to raise money for the church? If 95% of your customers liked what you were doing but 5% didn't, would you change your methods? I probably wouldn't but would listen.

What would you do if you owned a business and wanted to raise money for the church?

I would definitely keep both separate

Fair enough but that wasn't what I was getting at.

Would you listen to 5% of unhappy customers if the other 95% were happy?

Would you listen to 5% of unhappy customers if the other 95% were happy?

If 95% of my customers were happy I would continue doing what I'm doing.

But as was discussed on the thread, it's not easy in the case of large retailers to establish those percentages for product charity affiliations with a reasonable level of certainty

What if it was 60/40, or 70/30?

Would it still be the case of 'if you don't like it go and shop elsewhere?

But multiple people have explained to you that it is possible. You are the only person denying this for some reason, based on no knowledge or experience, just some random feelings.

What if it was 60/40, or 70/30?

Would it still be the case of 'if you don't like it go and shop elsewhere?

And the OP is just an example.

You can alienate different groups with different affiliations.

One day you associate yourself with a charity fighting climate change, you could perhaps upset farmers? Think about what's happening in Canada and the Netherlands currently

The next you associate yourself with a charity supporting same sex marriage, you could upset those with very conservative religious beliefs

The next you associate yourself with a tenants charity, you upset landlords

And so on

To add insult to injury, you force all these previously loyal (and now very irritated) customers to donate to causes they are against.

If you keep on ignoring your customers, thinking you know best and making a large enough number of wrong decisions you could end up upsetting 95% of your customers in total.

That does not make good business sense and can prove fatal over a period of time. Best to stay away from politics and focus on advertising your products

The next you associate yourself with a charity supporting same sex marriage, you could upset those with very conservative religious beliefs homophobic bigots.

There, fixed it for you.

Perhaps not. Business sense would dictate that you listen to see how you can improve customer satisfaction and their experience.

But that doesn't seem to be the case, from this thread at least.

In fairness I've definitely noticed an increase in businesses asking for charity donations but think this is a logical thing to do. I don't often give as I do other things but don't have an issue with it.

Ultimately companies are just giving a portion of the profits to charity. Not charging us any more. I'm not talking about rounding up purchases by 5p etc but things like your sandwich. I honestly don't see the issue unless you know the charity is suspect.

@thehorsehasnowbolted

But you're not necessarily affiliated with a charity because you bought a sandwich. The company is. You're just buying something you wanted (or not in your case).

I guarantee most, including myself, would look and see that shelter is a good cause. Or they just won't even notice because they're hangry. Or they don't care.

Is it virtue signalling? Maybe and I get it can go both ways but can imagine the numbers of complaints are minimal given the UK is one of the most generous countries for charity donations.

There, fixed it for you

So you wouldn't think anything of upsetting a large proportion of your client's customer base just because they don't agree with your personal beliefs?

I'm sorry to say that the more you post, the more it becomes apparent why businesses appear to be ill advised by marketing agencies.

Large retailers have a huge customer base. For some topics a large proportion of these customers will not share the personal views of the marketing professional. You still have to cater for them and listen to their opinions. Or do you also dismiss their results coming out of the market research? Or do you on purpose not select them for your focus groups? It's rather alarming, but your attitude explains a lot. Maybe you should rethink what it means to work in marketing. Who are you working for, yourself or your client?

Homophobia is not some difference of opinion matter.

The world is moving on and we're leaving behind catering to bigots. It's not I'll advised that giant companies don't want to be aligned with homophobia, racism, misogyny, etc. It's common sense.

You're really telling on yourself here.

Honestly OP, you are fucking tiresome. Do you really have so little else going on that you spend 19 pages complaining about a non issue and arguing with strangers.

Sod the customer? I'd ban you from every shop!

"I do not intend to comment on this charity in particular, but I have seen my fair share of pensioners being out of pocket to evict problem tenants who were in a position to pay the rent and look after properties but simply didn't want to and just played the system."

What on earth has that got to do with the work that Shelter do?

And why does it mattered whether the landlord concerned is a pensioner or not? How is that relevant?

1. Can you show me a document Shelter have produced that demonises landlords?

1. Why on earth do you think the Tory party would be swayed by a "all landlords are terrible" argument so much so that they would change policy/legislation? Unlikely. What's much more likely is that the Tories want everyone to be homeowners and we have a housing crisis. So they see legislation/taxation which discourages landlords may free up more homes for people who want to buy and live in them, rather than own them to rent out (or as second homes). This is an age old Tory ethos and has nothing to do with Shelter's lobbying. If this upsets you. Don't vote Tory, don't blame charities who are trying to support homeless people and provide housing advice often to very vulnerable people.

OP, when you choose to be a landlord, that is the risk you take. Everything comes with risks.

The world is moving on and we're leaving behind catering to bigots

Who is 'we'? You are speaking on behalf of whom?

68million people in the UK? Do the 7billion people in the world see eye to eye with you on every topic?

You're really telling on yourself here

So are you. I didn't say I agree with these views. I just provided some examples of matters that could be controversial. There are people who, for whatever reason, could be upset by these affiliations and would not want to donate. They are still people and they are still customers that businesses need.

Businesses don't need to affiliate themselves with anybody.

It didn't take long for you to snap, start name calling and preach on behalf of the 'world'.

Does this also happen when your ilk go about designing impartial marketing research?